Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: It's not what you have it's how you use it ...

  1. #1

    Default It's not what you have it's how you use it ...

    Not the first but possibly the biggest ?

    Shot entirely on iPhone

    https://youtu.be/u7KZrt_cHH0

    https://youtu.be/WOzuJW8GYZg

    https://youtu.be/R2TzkL1UjrM
    'No longer are the pleasures of Home Movie Making limited to those with ample funds. Now the man and woman of moderate means can join the sport'..... Kodak catalogue 1933

  2. #2

    Default

    Well.... yes and no, regarding your title! You can have all the skill and talent in the world, but you won't make a film with a potato.
    A more accurate version of that statement would be (IMHO) - "It does matter what you have, but it matters more how you use it".

    Just because Soderbergh shot it with an iPhone does not mean it was any good (from a video quality perspective). In fact, the film has some really bad reviews regarding visuals with many shot's being out of focus, soft and blurry.
    Sure, you can tell a compelling story either way - be it with a $500 phone or $50 000 ARRI, that will come down to talent or skill, but no matter the talent or skill - the visual quality of the image will be different from one to the other. Hence - gear matters.

    And a millionaire, award winning director can go ahead and shoot an indie project with a phone in his downtime, but that does not mean it applies to the rest of the world.

    At least he did not put a $10 000 lens on the phone and put it in a $20 000 steady rig for the shoot... like the the phone companies do when they release a new phone bragging about how good the camera is. So props for that.

  3. #3

    Default

    This is crazy. I'll have to look more into it.

    WHY? Why would anyone? I'm happy it was done, so we have something to look at an examine, but it is truly nonsense to me. The footage is hard to watch with such a poor dynamic range. These days for any production you don't even need money to get a camera better than a phone, you can just ask the crew to bring something they have at home and people will show up with a blackmagic pocket camera or better.


    RE: It's not what you have it's how you use it ...
    I agree with that. Other than shooting an movie with an iPhone, which as I said I think is downright silly, but ultimately you have to equip yourself with the best you can and make the shot work with what you have. I just think that the saying assumes you are not trying to do something silly for the sake of it when you clearly have access to better means.

    I've always been fascinated by how the content of an image can make you completely ignore the technical quality of it:
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...scobar_Mug.jpg

    That's Pablo Escobar, completely smug and in control. From a technical perspective that picture is bad, so much noise, so little detail. It was shot at a police station with whatever lighting setup they used to book people. In the real world that shot is a window through time into the mind of a powerful monster, and at the time it was taken it caused him a ton of grief because it provided evidence to the world of who he really was as a person.

    On the other end, nice shots with a cheap camera:
    These shots were taken with Canon Digital Elph cameras, among the cheapest entry level consumer cameras
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/58046003@N03/11041547396/
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/yodali...hy/5236173916/
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/boneil...hy/4299390144/
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/30273194@N04/5670975094
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/pentachoron/2507189372/ (this one is a 2PM camera from 2002)

  4. #4

    Default

    Perhaps we are being a tad pedantic..
    'No longer are the pleasures of Home Movie Making limited to those with ample funds. Now the man and woman of moderate means can join the sport'..... Kodak catalogue 1933

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,560

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enc View Post
    Perhaps we are being a tad pedantic..
    Agreed

    for me the key question is whether you want to do film or video

    if you want to do video, then you are trying to show something nice onscreen - buy a nice camera and film something nice - you are all set - maybe add some nice music

    if you want to do film, then you are trying to paint a world outside the frame - characters have a back story - they are looking at things outside the frame - they are getting phone calls - they are talking to people offscreen - sounds are coming in from all directions - the viewer believes they are only seeing a small window onto the world you have created just for them - that’s film - you can do it with a phone

  6. #6

    Default

    You have fair points, zamiotana, but here is why i don't like this whole "gear is not important - how you use what you have is" argument.

    P.s. I am fully aware this topic was not intended for this discussion (my apologies to the topic creator), but my fingers are itching about this subject

    First of all - it is so hypocritical, that it's not even funny.
    Every single person (in the industry, not talking about random people who have never done any video or photography work) who i have seen say this exact phrase... for some reason also has the best gear or at least very decent gear. If the gear is not so important - why did you spend that 50k on that RED that you are holding in your hand.... Why did you spend that 5k on the pro level drone? (hypothetically speaking)
    Apparently it was important enough to spend that much money on it.

    Second - for some reason everyone thinks only about a CAMERA when saying this phrase. What about the other gear? lights, lenses, audio, stabilizers, car rigs, drones, jib cranes, dollies, sliders and so on? Is that not also gear? I am pretty sure you could not make half of the movies in the past decade without those tools. Those movies would look totally different and some could not be made at all if they were shot with limited gear.

    I have never seen a professional filmmaker / photographer say - "gear is not important to me, i want to film stuff with my iphone 5 for the rest of my life".
    Try telling a wildlife photographer that gear is not important. Good luck getting any decent bird shots with your cheap 24-105 mm kit lens. There is a reason why they spend 10k on a 600 mm prime lens.

    It's almost as annoying as a millionaire saying "money is not important"... oh really, then why did you spend your entire life trying to amass millions if it's not that important. Or better yet - why don't you give 90% of it away, if it's not so important?!

    Every single filmmaker or photographer out there (other then some misguided purists) wants to improve their craft in one way or the other. That also includes having better tools at their disposal... for many reasons - whether to increase productivity, improve workflow, get better quality video or audio, get shot's that are not possible to get without specialty gear (drones, cranes, dollies, etc) and so on.

    When it comes to films - there are simply a LOT of things that you can not do without the proper tools (gear). Telling a compelling story is obviously the most important part of a film, but not having proper tools will limit how well you can tell that story or if at all. And i am not talking about some indie film where your actors have only talking scenes with locations changes... you can shoot that crap with a phone, sure... but try to shoot something like Pearl Harbor or Aviator with a phone - you can't. You need specialty gear to tell those stories.

    The only time i think that saying is adequate is, when saying it to a beginner who has the wrong mindset - like "oh, i can't make youtube videos right now because i don't have a camera. I will save money for a year, buy a camera first and only then start to film something".
    That's pretty much the only time that this saying would make sense - to inspire a beginner to go out there and START doing ANYTHING... to get their feet wet, to use anything that they currently have at their disposal (old iphone, cheap $30 lights and mic etc) and just start creating, start learning, get rid of the doubts and reasons not to do something and so on.

    Other then that, the saying is total bullshit in my mind. Just a bunch of empty words that are disproved by their own actions.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RL_Sensei View Post
    Every single person (in the industry, not talking about random people who have never done any video or photography work) who i have seen say this exact phrase... for some reason also has the best gear or at least very decent gear.
    I see your point but I think you are missing the overarching theme:

    Martin Scorsese on Canon EOS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy0ozn2YPAo

    People like Scorsese spent decades fighting their gear to try got get the shot. It used to be nearly impossible for an average Joe to get their hands on something that would produce even TV quality images.

    These days all you need is a Canon C300 and you are ready for Sundance and potentially a wide-audience release.

    I don't know if he shoots with the C300. Why would he? His projects are swimming in money with plenty of funds towards top tier camera and lighting gear. So yeah, he sits there and talks about the C300 while he probably shoots with a $million rig. I think his point is that if YOU and ME don't have the deep pockets for camera and gear, a C300 will do the job just fine and would let you compete with the big boys. I think he probably means if he were starting now, a C300 would be leaps and bounds better than what he started with.

    BTW,
    The Hurt Locker was shot on 16mm. That's the same size sensor as my Panasonic FZ2500. The C300 is APSC, so several times larger than needed for a proper cinematic release.
    https://timeinpixels.com/2015/08/cin...e-hurt-locker/

    Am I going to shoot a cinematic release with the Panasonic FZ2500? No. Even if I own it and I think I could get away with it, why use it? If I'm doing a proper shoot, well planned and with some type of budget, I'm renting a C300 at the bare minimum. But if a gifted visionary 16y/o wanted to shoot a cinematic release with a second-hand FZ2500 bought for $400, there's nothing quality-wise stopping it from being a world-wide success.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,560

    Default

    You have good points as well RL

    I think what I have been trying to say is that you can’t suddenly become a good film maker simply by buying expensive gear

    Start with your phone or whatever and master the art

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zamiotana View Post
    You have good points as well RL

    I think what I have been trying to say is that you can’t suddenly become a good film maker simply by buying expensive gear

    Start with your phone or whatever and master the art
    Oh, yeah. I completely agree with that! No one will be a pro over night just because he/she bought expensive gear.

    Exactly - gear does not matter for a beginner. In that stage it's much more important to do something, anything, with whatever gear is available... just to learn and even see if it's something that person want's to do. But after that - gear does matter, and it matters a lot in terms of the possibilities it provides (filming vise) and doors that it opens (production vise).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    11,347
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RL_Sensei View Post
    "gear is not important - how you use what you have is" argument.
    I was with you for a whole bunch of this (though found the "that sort of crap" comment weakened your credibility somewhat).
    I'd add that the big impressive scenes seem to be mostly done in CGI anyway (still qualifies as "gear").

    There is also a certain irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by RL_Sensei View Post
    Every single filmmaker or photographer out there (other then some misguided purists) wants to improve their craft in one way or the other. That also includes having better tools at their disposal... for many reasons - whether to increase productivity, improve workflow, get better quality video or audio, get shot's that are not possible to get without specialty gear (drones, cranes, dollies, etc) and so on.
    Why is every man and his dog using modern expensive equipment trying to emulate a look caused by the limitations of the older tools?
    Tim

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •