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Thread: Multi-Cam Live Music Video

  1. Default Multi-Cam Live Music Video

    So, I'll start with the excuses. I set things up in a hurry. Placement options were limited because I make it a point to stay out of people's way. I had to help troubleshoot a problem with the guitar (that I correctly traced to the pickup's battery). The light was what it was. The bass confused the shutter (or image stabilization?) on the pedal steel closeup cam. With expectations appropriately lowered, here's the first song from this show:


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    Looked and sounded fine to me

    I didn’t realise Johnny Cash was still living

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouldersoundguy View Post
    The bass confused the shutter (or image stabilization?) on the pedal steel closeup cam. With expectations appropriately lowered, here's the first song from this show:

    Could it be interference of simply the steel player kicking a loose or bendy floorboard to the rhythm of his tune? In any case I think you could even sell it as a special effect
    The cats are watching us...

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    Sound is very good (at least through my PC speakers/subwoofer)
    The angels are, as you explained, what you could get, but there's variety and some imaginitave angles so well done for that.

    There are one or two editing decisions that I'd question.

    Perhaps music videos is one area where dissolves are OK (generally to be avoided) but I would advise against dissolving where either of the shots involve camera movement. For example at 1:26, the camera with the bass in the left side is zooming out over the dissolve. It is particualrly "bad" as the fade only starts as the camera begins to move.

    Another thing to aim for with dissolves is so that the lighter part of the image (that is the area the eyes will focus on) is on a different side of the frame for the dissolve. If you look at 0:35, the outgoing shot has the attention on the steel on the left hand side of the frame and the incoming shot has the focus (the singer/guitarist) ALSO on the left hand side. Imagine how much better this would look if the brightly lit singer was on the other side of the image.

    My final comment (for now) on the edit is the need to pay attention to what is going on, where to focus the viewers' attention. Just before the singer sings his firt line we have (very nice) a mid shot of him, but as he enters on vocals you cut to a wide. This is exactly the wrong way round! When a new instrument/singer enters, that is the time tio cut to that instrument/singer - not away from.

    Another minor niggle - the shot previously mentioned (with the bass in the left) really needed to be focused on the singer rather than the bass and mic stand! - or better still a pull focus onto the singer.

    Of course all these comments are made not knowing what footage you have so take from it what you will. I enjoyed it anyway, I got a good idea of the characters in the band, I could see them all clearly and I could hear it in the sort of audio definition I would imagine the band would be very happy with. This on its own puts it ahead of 99% of other "band in a bar" videos we wee on YouTube.
    Tim

  5. Default

    I agree with pretty much everything, but I actually like the zoom/dissolve. That's just a creative difference between us. It is a blatant effect meant to be noticed. In other situations I would keep the editing less intrusive. I just wanted to throw a little spice into it.

    The focus issue is simply the result of the GoPro's fixed setting plus the zoom in post. As for cutting away from the singer, it was more to do with him fiddling with his mic, to which I didn't want to draw attention. But point taken. If it weren't for the limited options I gave myself I would have liked to arrange the bright vs. dark as you suggest. When possible, I particularly like to luma-key black areas to show other angles.

    I've often been disappointed with live band videos I see on YouTube so I set out to raise the bar without breaking the bank. Thanks for all the comments.

  6. #6

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    I forgot everything in your 'excuses' paragraph the moment the video started. I couldn't find fault with anything. Audio sounds good to me and I'm on studio monitors (I might have mixed the instruments a touch louder but I'm hearing it after the fact not at the location).

    I think your description of the events threw me off my game. I'll have to watch again to find occasion to give constructive criticism. It was a fun video with lots of different angles.

    But just going on what you said:

    > I set things up in a hurry.
    That's my enemy #1. I make a ton of mistakes when I let that happen.

    > Placement options were limited because I make it a point to stay out of people's way.
    Don't make too fine a point. People don't mind a little intrusion if it is to satisfy the cameras. Most people like to imagine some magic is happening and they are a part of it by being there.

    > The light was what it was.
    I normally would hold back this next thought but it seems that you are in pretty good control at these shoots so I'll add another layer. Maybe a couple of LED lights could help you bring in a bit more light into the scene without adding too much complexity. I have a pair of these:
    https://amzn.to/2H3s6ce

    They take 1 to 2 Sony batteries. At full charge with larger capacity batteries I can get about 2 hours of service at max strength. They offer a nice wide diffused light, and you can shape the blue/yellow temp color to match (or contrast) the stage. They are not very bright compared to any other pro lights, but enough for fills and can do a good job if you can station it close to the subject. You can also double them up or get bigger lights.

    In your case I think the singer could have benefited from a bit more light. Since you had the cam stand right there, just as easily you could have had one of these LED guys in that vicinity.

    If you have a Sony battery around, I would recommend to start experimenting with this light:
    https://amzn.to/2JPT3O9

    It should be about the same output but it feels stronger because the light is more directional. You can place it a bit further back and it will light the subject with some power. Can get annoying if you are the subject though (to be the target of a small hard light). Also, this smaller one doesn't have the light color controls, but it comes with a gel to make it 3200K. It also doesn't support 2 simultaneous batteries, so it might run out before the end of the performance (which is fine if you can change the battery during a break).

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    Lights would be tempting. The advantage of my current setup is that, other than tripods, everything fits in a smallish day pack. I'd like to keep things as small as possible. As is, I can usually get it all into the venue in two trips.

    The singer in this case is not the primary singer. The guitarist sings lead most of the time. The pedal steel player is normally singing backing parts and he projected a little louder for his lead vocals. Guitar and vocal are direct from the PA (Bose stick), the pedal steel is coming through the onboard mics of the H5 and the bass is direct from his amp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bouldersoundguy View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything, but I actually like the zoom/dissolve. That's just a creative difference between us. It is a blatant effect meant to be noticed. In other situations I would keep the editing less intrusive. I just wanted to throw a little spice into it.
    This is where I have to agree with Tim - the goal of film editing is to achieve a result that doesn’t look like the footage was edited at all - no blatant effects - no spice - nothing to detract from the immersive experience of your film - if nobody notices that you did a great job, then you did a great job - just like a good hitman - he makes it look like an accident - doesn’t get any credit for the job but doesn’t care about accolades - after a particularly good job he might look in the mirror and steal a look at his greatness, but that’s it

    Or you can do video instead of film - in which case anything goes - as long as you have 4k - until the next guy has 8k - just keep buying stuff and adding cool effects to your stuff - maybe get a drone

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    Quote Originally Posted by zamiotana View Post
    ystuff - maybe get a drone


    Yeah that would have been interesting
    I wont go to much into the video except to mention, at one point, the dancers randomly drifting into the scence, I thought it was people passing on their way to the toilet or something .. maybe an idea to have a shot of the room with them dancing, just to set the scene.

    What I know about C&W I could write on a postage stamp but The audio recording is great, is it a mix of desk and room ?
    'No longer are the pleasures of Home Movie Making limited to those with ample funds. Now the man and woman of moderate means can join the sport'..... Kodak catalogue 1933

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bouldersoundguy View Post
    Lights would be tempting. The advantage of my current setup is that, other than tripods, everything fits in a smallish day pack. I'd like to keep things as small as possible. As is, I can usually get it all into the venue in two trips.

    The singer in this case is not the primary singer. The guitarist sings lead most of the time. The pedal steel player is normally singing backing parts and he projected a little louder for his lead vocals. Guitar and vocal are direct from the PA (Bose stick), the pedal steel is coming through the onboard mics of the H5 and the bass is direct from his amp.
    RE: Lights
    That's why I thought of the LEDs, to be as light as possible. My LEDs are my small travel pack for photo/video work. I have 5 lights total. It all can fit in a single laptop bag (LED lights, batteries, spares and chargers). But you also need something to mount them on, so in my situation I also carry a long bag with 3 light stands.

    My second portable light kit is a bit larger. I have a 2-lightbox kit similar to this one:
    https://amzn.to/2ERtZ5O

    It is about twice the bulk but still pretty portable. The lightboxes fold like an umbrella. The bulkiest part is carrying 8 100watt-equivalent bulbs (CFL or LED work fine). The stands are the same type I use for the LED lights.

    Between these 2 kits I have plenty of lighting versatility for a location shoot. 2 lightboxes for key and fill lights, and 5 LEDs for background, hair, etc. The output is a compromise but I can usually shoot at 400 ISO with any combination of these kits.

    While the lightboxes are much more enjoyable to work with (higher output, nicer & softer light), they do take up way more physical space and have to be plugged to the wall. The LEDs have a tiny footprint and run on their own batteries.

    Here is one more thought while I'm at it. With the smallest LED light, sometimes you don't need to bother with a setup at all. In one situation shooting indoors during a social event, I put 3 of the smallest LED lights onto a multi bracket, I think it is this one:
    https://amzn.to/2vjJ1Sn

    So mounted them all at full brightness, and placed the rig on top of a large piece of furniture (a wall cabinet) pointing the lights at the wall and ceiling. The room is a 12-person dining area. The whole room went up a stop of light, meaning I was able to drop my ISO from about 1600 (useless for small sensors) to 800 (acceptable).

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