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Thread: Filming shows in 4K and cropping

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nice Cat Media View Post
    The only issue you may find in low light performances and having to shoot wide open is making sure your focus is bang on.
    Indeed, and it might not be possible to get the whole of the stage in focus, which is a problem if you're not sure what parts you're going to need to crop into in post.
    Tim

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    Another way to look at if you are using 2 cams and shooting in 4k is that you then have potentially 4 crops on a hd timeline! If you are trying to save time in the edit you could run both feeds through a laptop at the event running some mixing software like VMIX. Then cut between cams in real-time and save the output? Might be a bit of overkill though!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nice Cat Media View Post
    Another way to look at if you are using 2 cams and shooting in 4k is that you then have potentially 4 crops on a hd timeline! If you are trying to save time in the edit you could run both feeds through a laptop at the event running some mixing software like VMIX. Then cut between cams in real-time and save the output? Might be a bit of overkill though!
    2 x 4K cams is outside my budget of £2500. (Yes I know you can get 2 x 4K cams for that but only very much consumer grade)
    Tim

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimStannard View Post
    I am receiving an increasing number of requests to film school productions and produce DVDs,

    Typically I film two performances, both with two identical cameras (Canon XF100) one at the back capturing the whole stage and one left or right getting close ups. This means for any given scene I have two wide angles, one CU left and one CU right.

    Typically I will use only one nightís performance for each scene although I might use any of the four video tracks in musical numbers where they are performing to a recorded backing track as the tempo will be the same. Filming in HD means I have a little flexibility for re-framing in post.

    However, as you can imagine this takes rather a long time to edit and Iím looking at ways of streamlining this part of the process.

    I know of at least one guy (whom I've contacted and from whom I'm awaiting a reply) who shoots the whole thing in 4K wide then simply crops for close up, given that the end product is going to be in Standard Definition (DVD) thereís quite a bit of leeway here.

    The advantages as I see it are:
    1.Thereís no need to sync video in post (although this is trivial and Iíd have a separate audio which would need syncing anyway)
    2.If action is switching between stage left and stage right thereís no chance of missing it.
    3.There is no risk of zooming in too close only to have the action move out of frame as framing is achieved in post.
    4.There is no risk of zooming in too late as framing is achieved in post.

    There are two possible disadvantages that I can think of
    1.All shots are from the same angle (but is this really noticeable if you ar cutting between wide and CU?)
    2.Focus: If you focus on the back of the stage a character in the centre front might be soft, similarly if you focus for a centre front character, the characters to the rear or left or right of the stage might be soft.

    Iíd be interested in your thoughts on these issues and anything else you can think of - especially if you've experience of filming shows.

    Incidentally, the camera I have my eyes on is a Panasonic HC-X1 which is a UX180 without the SDI or Timecode. With a 1in MOS sensor I hope its DoF isnít so great as to give me focus problems in this situation, yet it is hopefully big enough to deal with low light better than my XF100.
    25 years in the business. I use Avid, Final Cut and Premiere. Lately Premiere only.

    All of your points are good, and Iíve done all of those in the past to one extent or another. Hereís my two cents.

    Iím not a fan of punching into 4K. youíll wind up spending more time punching in and moving shots around.

    Syncing video with multiple cameras is easy. use plural eyes for that. or if you have premiere CC thereís a built in sync function. much better production value using multiple cameras.

    If youíre using Premiere, it has a multicam edit function so you can cut the show in real time.

    Another option is to set up your system at the event to be able to perform a live cut of the show(s). Wire cast is cheap enough, or Livestream even has this function for example. You can always ISO record in your cameras for a backup. But at the end of the day, you have a working line cut and thereís NO syncing.

    Example:
    We produce 40 hours of finished video over six days each month using multiple cameras and WiFi transmit screen recordings from laptops in a classroom setting with livestream. We do one weekend in house and the other weekend in a different city throughout the country each month. We used wire cast in the past, but the livestream interface is much more user friendly and has a record function if youíre not actually streaming online. We stream online and make the productions available on Vimeo afterwards.

    I gave that example because spending the money to get us set up to have the line cuts completely done has eliminated days of work later in post. I spend literally 1 hour editing after each day and weíre done.

    Just some thoughts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #15
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    Thanks for your input, Flux2. Much appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux2 View Post
    Iím not a fan of punching into 4K. youíll wind up spending more time punching in and moving shots around.
    There is a risk of this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flux2 View Post
    Syncing video with multiple cameras is easy. use plural eyes for that. or if you have premiere CC thereís a built in sync function. much better production value using multiple cameras.
    Even without automated functions, it's pretty easy. Just leave both cameras running for the whole of the act and you only have to do it once. Ditto for the sound. The bigger issue is ensuring you don't inadvertently knock something our of sync (I edit the shows in that I am often cutting between different performances).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux2 View Post
    If youíre using Premiere, it has a multicam edit function so you can cut the show in real time.
    I use Vegas and you can do so in that as well, but I really don't like working that way. I seem incapable of scanning between different images and deciding where to cut. I ought to force myself to as it is clearly more efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flux2 View Post
    Another option is to set up your system at the event to be able to perform a live cut of the show(s). ...
    Interesting and I can see how efficient this would be.
    Tim

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimStannard View Post
    Interesting and I can see how efficient this would be.
    For sure. Itís like having a mobile tv studio. Saves us a ton of time, and the extra expense paid for itself after the first two times we did this.

    Iím not familiar with Vegas, but know one person using it. Truth be told, we have to view multi cam editing in premiere in 1/4 resolution otherwise it chugs. But I rarely use that anymore unless weíre producing a scripted long form infomercial for TV.

    Anyway, best of luck to you!


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