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Thread: Convert 30 fps to 25 fps with Sony Vegas Pro 13 - Motion Blur

  1. #1

    Question Convert 30 fps to 25 fps with Sony Vegas Pro 13 - Motion Blur

    Hi all,

    I have a problem, you may be able to help me.
    I am on a big project, it's almost done, but because of a camera being stolen in the middle of the project i have both 25 and 30 fps in my project. Right now i have 4 20-minutes video files, two rendered in 30 fps, and two rendered in 25 fps. The thing is i cannot render them as one and only file because i'll have to make a choice between 30 fps and 25 fps. All the time i tried to render 25 fps in 30 fps i have very blurry motions, and the other way around is the same. So here are my questions:
    - Is it more clever to try to convert 25 fps to 30 fps or 30 fps to 25 fps? Is one way working better than the other?
    - How to make the render on Sony vegas pro 13 so the image (and mostly the motion) will be as clean as possible? I don't need it to be perfect, but right now it's quite ugly.
    - Is there a format that meke things easier? WMV, MP4, MOV...
    - Is there a special function on sony vegas pro 13 to select (or unselect) to help avoid motion blur?

    After one year of editing, noticing that you did something stupid while filming, ... not funny!
    Thanks for your help, Paul N.

  2. #2

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    As bigmanjoe says, you're probably better off cutting frames rather than duplicating them, but I'm afraid motion will still look pretty 'jerky'. Cutting out (or adding!) 5 frames from every second of video is going to leave some nasty artifacts where motion is involved.

    You can get better results using 'optical flow' techniques, but it's a bit more complex . I converted a short iphone 'promo' clip at 30 fps into a 25fps clip using an 'optical flow' technique
    To get an idea of what the results look like, you can download those clips from here:

    http://www.jp137.com/lvs/iphone30.mp4

    http://www.jp137.com/lvs/iphone25.mp4

    (both clips are about 27MB)

    I used free software to do that, but I should advise that although it's quite easy to actually do, there is a bit of a 'learning curve' involved with the 'not very user friendly' software. I used Avisynth and Mytools... both free, but as I say, not very 'friendly' to start with.

    You can probably get similar results from within Vegas by using the 'Twixtor' plugin, but it's not cheap, and you'd need to confirm that it performs well for this task with someone who's actually used it for frame rate conversion....

    It really all depends how important 'jerky' motion is to your final project?........

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogs View Post
    As bigmanjoe says, you're probably better off cutting frames rather than duplicating them, but I'm afraid motion will still look pretty 'jerky'. Cutting out (or adding!) 5 frames from every second of video is going to leave some nasty artifacts where motion is involved.

    You can get better results using 'optical flow' techniques, but it's a bit more complex . I converted a short iphone 'promo' clip at 30 fps into a 25fps clip using an 'optical flow' technique
    To get an idea of what the results look like, you can download those clips from here:

    http://www.jp137.com/lvs/iphone30.mp4

    http://www.jp137.com/lvs/iphone25.mp4

    (both clips are about 27MB)

    I used free software to do that, but I should advise that although it's quite easy to actually do, there is a bit of a 'learning curve' involved with the 'not very user friendly' software. I used Avisynth and Mytools... both free, but as I say, not very 'friendly' to start with.

    You can probably get similar results from within Vegas by using the 'Twixtor' plugin, but it's not cheap, and you'd need to confirm that it performs well for this task with someone who's actually used it for frame rate conversion....

    It really all depends how important 'jerky' motion is to your final project?........
    Hi thank you for your answers,

    Your clip look very good even in 25, i'll be happy with that!
    With the optical flow technique, you have no risk of having the sound shifting from the video?
    Can you explain me quickly (is that possible?) how did you do using Avisynth and Mytools? technically i have 2 entire chapters to convert from 30 to 25, so if i render each chapter in 30 to have a good quality, i will just have 2 files to convert, that looks possible (well, i do not know how complicated it is..).

    I already had a look a twixtor but it look very complicated to me, and pretty expensive.

    @bigmanjoe, thanks for your answer, are you saying that convert from 30 to 24 will be more efficient than convert from 30 to 25?

    Thank you guys for the answers, Paul

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Boige View Post
    With the optical flow technique, you have no risk of having the sound shifting from the video?
    Can you explain me quickly (is that possible?) how did you do using Avisynth and Mytools?
    I can refer you to some notes I made a while back about using AviSynth and MV tools to create slow motion footage which may help? - you can find them here: http://bit.do/slo-mo

    Those notes were written for a 'non techy' person (my brother!) hence the 'left click here' - 'right click there' approach. As you will see, there's quite lot to the initial concept, but the actual application is simple enough.

    You would need to apply a different script from the one suggested for the 'slo-mo', but the same concepts apply. The frame rate conversion script is much simpler, as you can read below.....
    Code:
    AVISource()
    
    # convert clip to 25fps
    
    
    super = MSuper(pel=2)
    
    
    backward_vec = MAnalyse(super, overlap=0, isb = true, truemotion=true, search=3)
    
    
    forward_vec = MAnalyse(super, overlap=0, isb = false, truemotion=true, search=3)
    
    
    MFlowFps(super, backward_vec, forward_vec, num=25,den=1,ml=100)
    (That text file would need to be saved with an '.avs' extension to work as an AviSynth script)

    There should be no reason why the audio should lose sync.. the 25fps file will have the same duration as the 30fps orignal. Where this approach can lose sync is if you are trying to create a 25fps clip from a variable frame rate source. (Variable frame rates are a nightmare for this type fof process!)

    As you can see, it's quite a lot to take in at first, but it is simple to do once it's set up .... whether you think it's worth the effort, only you can decide?.....
    It's certainly cheaper than using Twixtor

  5. #5
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    I've had good luck converting 30fps to 24fps with no problems

    some of my clips say they are 30fps and some say 29.97fps and to be perfectly honest I don't know why that is - but either way they look great when I go to 24fps

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