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Thread: Dailies Editing

  1. #1

    Default Dailies Editing

    Hi, Cliffs at bottom

    Basically I'm going to be working on project where I need to sync the dailies. I'm a pc guy but the editor is working on final cut x, so after looking at if xml would work, I've come to the conclusion I'll need to render all the clips. Now I'll probably be using premiere pro and rendering through adobe media encoder when i sleep to save time. Now will this maintain the quality, I know you'll always lose something when rendering but as long as it's not going to be a problem, footage is 1080p 25fps indie film.

    Also has anyone used davinci resolve and could let me know if that might be worth looking into

    Cliffs

    Working as dailies editor

    Only syncing audio and video I'm on pc editors on final cut

    Was thinking of using premiere pro and then media encoder to render them as a batch list while I sleep to save time

    How does media encoder render, will it be okay for this project indie film don't want it be be remotely noticeable in quality loss

    Also anyone with experience in davinci resolve know if it's worth checking out?

    Cheers

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeven View Post
    Hi, Cliffs at bottom

    Basically I'm going to be working on project where I need to sync the dailies. I'm a pc guy but the editor is working on final cut x, so after looking at if xml would work, I've come to the conclusion I'll need to render all the clips. Now I'll probably be using premiere pro and rendering through adobe media encoder when i sleep to save time. Now will this maintain the quality, I know you'll always lose something when rendering but as long as it's not going to be a problem, footage is 1080p 25fps indie film.
    Question 1:
    Assuming the video and audio are being recorded separately (hence the need to sync) are they being recorded with or without jammed timecode? For low budget stuff it's usually without. It's a shame that you'll be doing the dailies sync because sync is built in to FCPX and fairly trivial to do. If the video and audio are timecode sync'd then there is an app (Sync n link) on the Mac that will do the sync pretty much instantaneously and produce an FCPX import at the same time! But you're on a PC, oh well :(

    Another app I use to make most camera files instantly FCPX friendly is EditReady from Divergent media, but again this looks like it's a Mac only App. This can either just e-wrap (while converting audio to uncompressed) or transcode to ProRes etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeven View Post
    Also has anyone used davinci resolve and could let me know if that might be worth looking into
    What do you have in mind for Resolve? Colour Grading? Transcoding or Editing?

    As an editor it's come on leaps and bounds but requires a pretty beefy system to play at full speed, including transcoding all the media first (it's not good at playing native media for editing).

    However, Davinci Resolve can be used as a method of batch processing files from one codec to another without colour processing if required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeven View Post
    Was thinking of using premiere pro and then media encoder to render them as a batch list while I sleep to save time

    How does media encoder render, will it be okay for this project indie film don't want it be be remotely noticeable in quality loss
    If you're just transcoding then instead of Premiere Pro / Media Encoder you would use Prelude / Media encoder (Prelude is included in the CS6 or CC bundles). Have it export to files that the editor can handle, which could be DNxHD or try to find a third party Windows compatible ProRes encoder (I know there is one, can't remember where though).

    However, none of the Resolve or Prelude / Media encoder will do the audio sync for you. You could try PluralEyes as a standalone app. It's a long time since I used PluralEyes but I understand it's now faster and more reliable, but can't say that from personal experience.

    If you're planning on doing the sync in Premiere Pro one file at a time and then queuing them for encoding then that's going to be a very manual way of doing things, but yes it can be done. Again, check with the editor for his preferred codec (I guarantee it's ProRes but you need to find the third party ProRes encoder), maybe DNxHD or something less compressed.

    So, before we go further,

    What camera / codec is the source?

    What form is the audio?

    How much stuff are you going to have to sync daily?

    How will you get the files to the editor? Is he going to be on or off set and /or remote?

    The FCPX eco system has so much stuff available for exactly this kind of work that it's a real shame you don't have a Mac, it would make it all so much easier and you could be keywording, adding scene / shot / take / pick etc as you go making the editor's life so much easier!


    [EDIT: Here is the windows prores encoder: http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html ]
    Last edited by David Partington; 06-30-2015 at 05:06 PM.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Partington View Post
    Question 1:
    Assuming the video and audio are being recorded separately (hence the need to sync) are they being recorded with or without jammed timecode? For low budget stuff it's usually without. It's a shame that you'll be doing the dailies sync because sync is built in to FCPX and fairly trivial to do. If the video and audio are timecode sync'd then there is an app (Sync n link) on the Mac that will do the sync pretty much instantaneously and produce an FCPX import at the same time! But you're on a PC, oh well :(



    Another app I use to make most camera files instantly FCPX friendly is EditReady from Divergent media, but again this looks like it's a Mac only App. This can either just e-wrap (while converting audio to uncompressed) or transcode to ProRes etc.



    What do you have in mind for Resolve? Colour Grading? Transcoding or Editing?

    As an editor it's come on leaps and bounds but requires a pretty beefy system to play at full speed, including transcoding all the media first (it's not good at playing native media for editing).

    However, Davinci Resolve can be used as a method of batch processing files from one codec to another without colour processing if required.



    If you're just transcoding then instead of Premiere Pro / Media Encoder you would use Prelude / Media encoder (Prelude is included in the CS6 or CC bundles). Have it export to files that the editor can handle, which could be DNxHD or try to find a third party Windows compatible ProRes encoder (I know there is one, can't remember where though).

    However, none of the Resolve or Prelude / Media encoder will do the audio sync for you. You could try PluralEyes as a standalone app. It's a long time since I used PluralEyes but I understand it's now faster and more reliable, but can't say that from personal experience.

    If you're planning on doing the sync in Premiere Pro one file at a time and then queuing them for encoding then that's going to be a very manual way of doing things, but yes it can be done. Again, check with the editor for his preferred codec (I guarantee it's ProRes but you need to find the third party ProRes encoder), maybe DNxHD or something less compressed.

    So, before we go further,

    What camera / codec is the source?

    What form is the audio?

    How much stuff are you going to have to sync daily?

    How will you get the files to the editor? Is he going to be on or off set and /or remote?

    The FCPX eco system has so much stuff available for exactly this kind of work that it's a real shame you don't have a Mac, it would make it all so much easier and you could be keywording, adding scene / shot / take / pick etc as you go making the editor's life so much easier!


    [EDIT: Here is the windows prores encoder: http://www.miraizon.com/products/codecsoverview.html ]
    1. Unfortunately timecode was not setup and so isn't usable

    2. Was thinking of resolve for batch rendering the files as it would be easier than having to use media encoder but I just read that I can't sync audio in resolve - if that's true then that's ruled out for now. Want to get into it for grading but 1 thing at a time the now.

    3. I'm meeting up with them on Thursday so I don't know for sure but I think its H.264 and MOV but I might be wrong 1080P 25 FPS for sure though

    4. Audio Is WAV 24/48 I think again will confirm on Thursday

    5. They've shot most of it, they want me to sync it in order - scene 1 then 2 etc - not ideal, I've got a bit of time before they start editing though so i'll be able to get a head start. There's a huge amount of footage though 600GB At least they're saying.

    6. Again being confirmed on Thursday but I'm assuming I'll be dropping off a weeks work at a time using a hard drive

    I know this isn't ideal, but without any sort of timecode I think I'm going to manually have to sync it, the only thing I can think of is using PluralEyes but I don't know how trusting I am of it

    Thanks for your help so far btw!

  4. #4

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    Hopefully for your sake they have named / labelled / logged this sufficiently well to know what each file is!

    Also, let's hope the camera caught enough quality audio to actually sync to!

    I wouldn't worry to much about the physical size (600GB). The biggest problem is the number of clips you're going to have to match. The more clips the bigger the pain!

    FCPX is pretty good at editing native h.264 files and if needed then one click in FCPX and it will generate proxy files for editing if needed, then another single click and you're back to the original media for grading.

    Download the PluralEyes 3.5 demo and throw some files at it and see what it does. Maybe you'll get lucky If you're then going to export the files as merged video / audio then you may as well go ahead and generate ProRes files, though if you've got 600GB of h264 you're easily going to end up with a couple of TB of ProRes files!

    I would avoid taking h.264, merging audio and re-exporting at h264 because that extra generation loss is not too pretty. If there's a way to take the original h.264 and just re-wrap it with the new audio it would be much better all round.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Partington View Post
    Hopefully for your sake they have named / labelled / logged this sufficiently well to know what each file is!

    Also, let's hope the camera caught enough quality audio to actually sync to!

    I wouldn't worry to much about the physical size (600GB). The biggest problem is the number of clips you're going to have to match. The more clips the bigger the pain!

    FCPX is pretty good at editing native h.264 files and if needed then one click in FCPX and it will generate proxy files for editing if needed, then another single click and you're back to the original media for grading.

    Download the PluralEyes 3.5 demo and throw some files at it and see what it does. Maybe you'll get lucky If you're then going to export the files as merged video / audio then you may as well go ahead and generate ProRes files, though if you've got 600GB of h264 you're easily going to end up with a couple of TB of ProRes files!

    I would avoid taking h.264, merging audio and re-exporting at h264 because that extra generation loss is not too pretty. If there's a way to take the original h.264 and just re-wrap it with the new audio it would be much better all round.
    I've managed to get my hands on the audio files, at the moment it's looking like roughly 40 files per day, 30 days so far. Also you're saying if the files are h.264 then don't render them as h.264 yeah?

    Cheers

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeven View Post
    I've managed to get my hands on the audio files, at the moment it's looking like roughly 40 files per day, 30 days so far. Also you're saying if the files are h.264 then don't render them as h.264 yeah?

    Cheers
    If you are going to h.264 then make it a decent bit rate at least! Going to ProRes 422 or DNxHD would be better in terms of being more visually lossless.

    HOWEVER, I suggest talking to the editor and finding out what they want - they may have a preference which could even be h.264 and you could be going through an awful lot of effort only to find that they want something different to what you are providing.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Partington View Post
    If you are going to h.264 then make it a decent bit rate at least! Going to ProRes 422 or DNxHD would be better in terms of being more visually lossless.

    HOWEVER, I suggest talking to the editor and finding out what they want - they may have a preference which could even be h.264 and you could be going through an awful lot of effort only to find that they want something different to what you are providing.
    Yeah I will definitely talk to them and go with what they want, what bitrate would You suggest though?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeven View Post
    Yeah I will definitely talk to them and go with what they want, what bitrate would You suggest though?
    I think it's all academic until you talk to the editor, since he may want something very specific. Let us know what he comes back with

    If it were me I'd be asking for either original h264 files (which won't help you with syncing) or ProRes HQ files as the masters, .

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