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Thread: Self-made DVD's from DVD recorder showing interlacing lines on HDTV - why?

  1. #1

    Default Self-made DVD's from DVD recorder showing interlacing lines on HDTV - why?

    Hey guys,

    I have a big problem here that I hope someone can help me with. It's a bit complicated so will try and keep as simple as possible.

    In 2008 I copied some family video tapes (PAL VHS) to DVD. I used a Sony DVD recorder (HXD770). This has a hard drive so I recorded them to the hard drive and then burned them to DVD. At the time I had a CRT TV and I remember watching them back and they looked pretty good and was happy with them. It's now 2015 and the CRT is long gone and we got the DVD's out the other week to watch on our 1080p HDTV. I still have the Sony HXD770 and a PS4 for gaming and BluRay watching. I decided to watch the DVD's on the Sony DVD recorder. It is connected via HDMI and the output is set to 576p.

    I turned on the first DVD and within a few seconds I noticed that on any movement I was getting pretty bad interlacing lines! I tried other output settings (720p, 1080i and 1080p) and they were just as bad. I was getting thick black interlacing lines on the edges of things and finer lines on other things. In desperation as to what was going on I tried to output using 576i which was greyed out on the menu. I had to change the output colour settings to allow this to be selected and then played the DVD using this output. The quality of the picture wasn't as good overall but the interlacing lines for the most part were solved.

    I then decided to put the DVD in my PS4 in case the Sony DVD recorder was just doing a really rubbish job of de-interlacing anything above 576i. The PS4 only allows me to output in 480p (I am in PAL land so that's a shame) 720p, 1080i and 1080p. I selected 480p and the playback seemed to be 95% okay with only minimal interlacing lines on fast moving scenes. However (and this is what is annoying) I noticed that on many brighter parts of the picture it has fairly thick grey lines. These are hard to describe but are like thicker interlacing lines. If I select 720p, 1080i and 1080p these lines are not so thick but the interlacing problems are back with loads of fine lines appearing on scenes with movement to the camera.

    So, my question is what is going on? When I recorded these DVD's to the Sony DVD recorder I used default settings (PAL 720x576) and the bitrate was set to HQ (maximum). This gives an average bitrate of around 9.3mbps. I know from reading around on the net that this is considered high but they seem to play fine without stuttering. I have checked the video settings and TMPGENC and Restream both tell me that the DVD's are upper field dominance which I believe is correct for PAL SD video.

    I have tried playing these DVD's back in VLC media player and if i de-interlace using blend then I get the normal ghosting on fast moving scenes but I also get these jagged interlacing lines. The DVD's seem to look okay using the discard method of de-interlacing though. They aren't perfect but they are okay.

    The tapes unfortunately got badly damaged when moving house a few years back so I can't re-capture these and need to try to get these DVD's to play on an HDTV above 576i without looking like an interlacing mess. Can anyone tell me what the problem may be as it's a bit upsetting to know that these DVD's may be screwed up as they have precious footage on them.

    Cheers
    Last edited by JonVic; 03-04-2015 at 04:42 PM. Reason: change prefix

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonVic View Post
    I decided to watch the DVD's on the Sony DVD recorder. It is connected via HDMI and the output is set to 576p.
    For an interlaced DVD you need to set to '576i' not '576p'

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogs View Post
    For an interlaced DVD you need to set to '576i' not '576p'
    Well, that's what I thought initially. However DVD's are 480/576i and plenty of people upscale them and they are fine. By choosing 576p surely I am telling the DVD recorder/PS4 to de-interlace and then send to the TV? By selecting 576i I am getting the TV to de-interlace? S that may mean the de-interlacer sucks in my DVD recorder but doesn't explain why the playback is also poor from the PS4 and in VLC when set to blend de-interlace?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonVic View Post
    Well, that's what I thought initially. However DVD's are 480/576i and plenty of people upscale them and they are fine. By choosing 576p surely I am telling the DVD recorder/PS4 to de-interlace and then send to the TV? By selecting 576i I am getting the TV to de-interlace? S that may mean the de-interlacer sucks in my DVD recorder but doesn't explain why the playback is also poor from the PS4 and in VLC when set to blend de-interlace?
    Why would the DVD recorder de-interlace?... I think it will only try and play the format you've asked it to. If it was clever enough to work out whether the footage was interlaced or not, there would be no need to have the option to select 576i or 576p.....

    On the other hand, newer TVs can do all sorts of clever things when it comes to de-interlacing and upscaling...

    I don't have a PS4, but my experience with VLC player de-interlacing has not been a happy one. (i.e. it's not very good)

    It might also be worth considering saving the DVDs onto your PC, and maybe recode into another format?....

    Unlike commercial 'pressed' DVDs ... which seem to work fine and don't often show signs of degradation (so far!).... home made 'burned' DVDs already seem to be having problems. There are many posts all over the net about 'burned' DVDs failing, sometimes after only a couple of years -or even less!

    So as it's precious family footage, get a copy onto your computer (just RIP the DVDs using something like DVD Decrypter). Then you can consider all sorts of other options.
    Like de-interlacing 'properly', and possibly re-coding as mp4 and replaying onto you TV with a media player? (Like a WDTV Live for example... there are many cheaper ones as well)
    But whatever you decide, I really would consider making a copy before your DVDs start to deteriorate. They may not of course........but I wouldn't take that chance with irreplaceable footage.....
    Last edited by rogs; 03-04-2015 at 07:29 PM.

  5. #5

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    Well, I have been reading up more on this and it clearly says in many places that DVD and Bluray players can upscale DVD resolution (576i). If you are playing a 576i DVD and output is set to 576p then the player will do the de-interlacing (convert to progressive). If you set it to 576i it will send it out interlaced and the TV will then de-interlace as something has to de-interlace the footage so it can show on a progressive HDTV.

    Yes, it's certainly possible that VLC does a rubbish job of de-interlacing. For example I just tried Cyberlink DVD on my laptop and that does look better.

    I wonder if the scaling by the player or TV is causing issues? By that I mean the image has to be scaled to fit the TV and the process basically means the TV or player 'invents' pixels to fill the scren. I wonder if this is causing problems and giving me these interlacing lines because the original footage is low resolution VHS on a DVD?

  6. #6

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    I thinkit's a pretty old DVD recorder... not sure how well the early ones did de-interlacing and upscaling ? Why are you not keen to let your much more up to date TV do the hard work?..

    Edit: glad to see the 'expert' guys on VideoHelp have pretty much come to the the same conclusions as me !

    And as that thread has progressed further than this one, it's becoming increasingly clear that you are probably going to have to remake this particular DVD . I suspect the bit rate is just too high for some hardware to replay properly...(you can probably find lots of comment online that describe problems with DVDs with high bit rates).
    Last edited by rogs; 03-05-2015 at 10:40 AM.

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