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Thread: Trailer for my boxing documentary. What do you think?

  1. #1

    Default Trailer for my boxing documentary. What do you think?

    Let me know what you think please,dont pull your punches.(bad joke I know)


  2. #2

    Default

    0:30 to 0:36. I may have preferred the cam operator had used a tripod.
    01:37 feels good for the length of the trailer. But I am unsure about the purpose of a trailer.
    01:05 to 01:13 "biggest names in the sport". I don't have a clue who those people are, so would liked a caption with their name(s).
    I always find it odd to include music with sport. But I accept that the normal sounds of boxing are more generally 'bang' and 'ouch', which probably don't sound quite as dramatic as the sound track in this video.
    Whilst I have no interest in boxing, I am curious to see the final video. I found some of the less usual views (e.g. 01:21 to 01:25) interesting and informative, but not the sight of adult men assaulting each other.

  3. #3

    Default

    I enjoy a bit of boxing and to give you an idea of my level of interest, have seen a few boxing matches albeit not for the last couple of years (divorcing, spending tons of money on lawyers etc...). Typically, I occasionally watch bigger fights or 'name' boxers and watched Ricky Hatton a couple of times including in his Costa Tzu fight, Amir Khan at the O2 etc... I've only ever seen small hall stuff on TV although my girlfriend has occasionally been to small hall or amateur competitions.

    I watch boxing documentaries and am right in your demographic as I rent boxing docus but there is one element here which turned me right off and would make me immediately dismiss it. I know it sounds strange but there is something about the voice and my natural instinct would be to avoid. When I saw the visuals and the overall commentary, I thought it was good. However, there was something strange about the voice which instinctively turned me off when I listened through my laptop.

    If I put my film making hat on to analyse why, there is a flatness and slightly muffled nature to the sound which does not match the intelligence of the trailer. It sounds muffled, amateurish and detracted to the point I was turned off when I listened through my computer speakers.

    When I listen through a pair of Sennheiser headphones, I am picking up that it has been recorded in a smallish room on a cheap mic, there is an echo which indicates it has been recorded in a small room, untreated for sound and there is a tiny little hiss. The hiss is telling me you have not treated the sound properly in post and the overall sound is indicating you recorded it at your house, in a small room with relatively empty walls, probably with an untreated wall close by. The flatness tells me it is a cheap mic, certainly sub 300 as it is not picking up the colours in your voice. I have not listened on monitors.

    Going further in, the sound of the crowd cheering does not quite go with the crowd and the overall mix is not where it should be. However, this did not turn me off. Simply, the amateurish way the voice has been recorded / treated was the major turnoff as to why I would not watch.

    As an idea of my audio setup, I have an ECM 674, Fostex FR2-le, my mixer is a Promix 3 and I have usual boom etc... In addition, I have a music, 8-track mixer, some Shure music-driven mics for guitars, voice and a bass drum. My sound skills are not strong and I am not a sound specialist, just a klutzy amateur who can do enough to fool another amateur.

    However, my sound skills are not the best and to give you an idea of my level of skill so you can hear my audio skills aren't the best and you can figure out how much salt to pinch with my 'technical' comments.:


    https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review...591/040e0a533b
    https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review...456/69df2b8874
    Last edited by gorillaonabike; 01-12-2014 at 01:31 PM.
    "80% of success is turning up" - Woody Allen

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks for the honest feedback.Your spot on reguarding how the voice over was recorded.

    Whats the best way to do a voice over on a budget??

    Whats the best type of room to do it in?

    Quote Originally Posted by gorillaonabike View Post
    I enjoy a bit of boxing and to give you an idea of my level of interest, have seen a few boxing matches albeit not for the last couple of years (divorcing, spending tons of money on lawyers etc...). Typically, I occasionally watch bigger fights or 'name' boxers and watched Ricky Hatton a couple of times including in his Costa Tzu fight, Amir Khan at the O2 etc... I've only ever seen small hall stuff on TV although my girlfriend has occasionally been to small hall or amateur competitions.

    I watch boxing documentaries and am right in your demographic as I rent boxing docus but there is one element here which turned me right off and would make me immediately dismiss it. I know it sounds strange but there is something about the voice and my natural instinct would be to avoid. When I saw the visuals and the overall commentary, I thought it was good. However, there was something strange about the voice which instinctively turned me off when I listened through my laptop.

    If I put my film making hat on to analyse why, there is a flatness and slightly muffled nature to the sound which does not match the intelligence of the trailer. It sounds muffled, amateurish and detracted to the point I was turned off when I listened through my computer speakers.

    When I listen through a pair of Sennheiser headphones, I am picking up that it has been recorded in a smallish room on a cheap mic, there is an echo which indicates it has been recorded in a small room, untreated for sound and there is a tiny little hiss. The hiss is telling me you have not treated the sound properly in post and the overall sound is indicating you recorded it at your house, in a small room with relatively empty walls, probably with an untreated wall close by. The flatness tells me it is a cheap mic, certainly sub 300 as it is not picking up the colours in your voice. I have not listened on monitors.

    Going further in, the sound of the crowd cheering does not quite go with the crowd and the overall mix is not where it should be. However, this did not turn me off. Simply, the amateurish way the voice has been recorded / treated was the major turnoff as to why I would not watch.

    As an idea of my audio setup, I have an ECM 674, Fostex FR2-le, my mixer is a Promix 3 and I have usual boom etc... In addition, I have a music, 8-track mixer, some Shure music-driven mics for guitars, voice and a bass drum. My sound skills are not strong and I am not a sound specialist, just a klutzy amateur who can do enough to fool another amateur.

    However, my sound skills are not the best and to give you an idea of my level of skill so you can hear my audio skills aren't the best and you can figure out how much salt to pinch with my 'technical' comments.:


    https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review...591/040e0a533b
    https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review...456/69df2b8874

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks for feedback.You must really not like boxing,I guess most people would recognise Ricky Hatton and Chris Eubank.

    I got a few other shots I might use instead at the 0:30-0;36 point.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimAndrews View Post
    0:30 to 0:36. I may have preferred the cam operator had used a tripod.
    01:37 feels good for the length of the trailer. But I am unsure about the purpose of a trailer.
    01:05 to 01:13 "biggest names in the sport". I don't have a clue who those people are, so would liked a caption with their name(s).
    I always find it odd to include music with sport. But I accept that the normal sounds of boxing are more generally 'bang' and 'ouch', which probably don't sound quite as dramatic as the sound track in this video.
    Whilst I have no interest in boxing, I am curious to see the final video. I found some of the less usual views (e.g. 01:21 to 01:25) interesting and informative, but not the sight of adult men assaulting each other.

  6. #6

    Default

    I don't know if it's just because I really don't like fighting but the trailer seemed a bit dull if it's been made to encourage people to buy the DVD. For me it lacked close ups in the fight scenes or at least a second focal length that you could inter cut with.

  7. #7

    Default

    Most has been mentioned and I agree so I will just add the parts which haven't been covered yet.

    I wouldn't have showed to many KOs in the beginning. I would rather have taken some close-ups of fight scenes as boxing it more than just KO.

    In my opinion the background music is too loud for the voice.

    If you are searching for a voice recording studio on a budget you can give your wardrobe a visit. The clothes will break most reflecting sound waves.

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I am limited on the shots of the boxing I can use because I didi not film it for the documentary,thats why they are all wide shots.The promoter pays me to film his shows.

    Thanks about the wardrobe tip.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXLRay View Post
    Most has been mentioned and I agree so I will just add the parts which haven't been covered yet.

    I wouldn't have showed to many KOs in the beginning. I would rather have taken some close-ups of fight scenes as boxing it more than just KO.

    In my opinion the background music is too loud for the voice.

    If you are searching for a voice recording studio on a budget you can give your wardrobe a visit. The clothes will break most reflecting sound waves.

  9. #9

    Default

    The clothes tip is pretty good but there are three elements which are sound treating the room, using half-decent equipment and having a great sound mix.

    1. Very quiet room and XXL Ray is right - fill it with clothes and don't forget the sound will bounce off the ceiling and other surfaces as well. At one point, I was using a duvet to stop the echo in a particularly annoying room as it was good at killing the echo.

    2. Beg or borrow some gear. At a bare minimum, get a mic which will catch the colour in your voice and a recorder which will capture the sound adequately. I use something between the recorder and the mic called a mixer (with good preamps) which will boost the sound and reduces the hiss level.

    3. Get someone with some sound skills or alternatively learn some sound skills to do a basic sound mix in post. I am pretty clumsy with sound but your sound mix is significantly clumsier than mine so you need to address this by working out what you want to do. Start by working out the volume level for the narrative, then the other elements. If you are doing it yourself, just learn the standard parameters for voiceover, music, background etc... and try not to deviate too much. Even better, find someone else who knows what to do.

    I borrow a Sennheiser 416, NTG2 and personally own an ECM 674. These are the mics I use which pick up the sound nicely and retain the colour in the voice.

    The recorder I use is a Fostex FR2-le. However, you could use a Tascam DR-100 which is my backup recorder in case my FR2-le fails at a critical moment.

    The thing between them is a mixer and mine is a Promix 3 which boosts the voice, improves the signal to noise ratio (i.e. reduces the hiss while boosting the colour in the voice) and is great.

    To monitor the sound, I use a lovely set of Sennheiser headphones although playback through different speakers, headphones etc... although I again reiterate I am just a rubbish amateur.

    Any of these elements will produce a significant improvement and all three together will generate a decent sound although 'soundies' will bitch like crazy about my suggestions as they don't go even halfway far enough for them. XXLRay is right to concentrate on sound treating the room but all three together will provide the boost.

    And incidentally, I love the idea of shooting boxing. If ever you need anything shot in London, please just let me know and I'd be happy to help out.
    Last edited by gorillaonabike; 01-13-2014 at 08:19 PM.
    "80% of success is turning up" - Woody Allen

  10. Default

    Thanks again,will see how it ends up.

    Quote Originally Posted by gorillaonabike View Post
    The clothes tip is pretty good but there are three elements which are sound treating the room, using half-decent equipment and having a great sound mix.

    1. Very quiet room and XXL Ray is right - fill it with clothes and don't forget the sound will bounce off the ceiling and other surfaces as well. At one point, I was using a duvet to stop the echo in a particularly annoying room as it was good at killing the echo.

    2. Beg or borrow some gear. At a bare minimum, get a mic which will catch the colour in your voice and a recorder which will capture the sound adequately. I use something between the recorder and the mic called a mixer (with good preamps) which will boost the sound and reduces the hiss level.

    3. Get someone with some sound skills or alternatively learn some sound skills to do a basic sound mix in post. I am pretty clumsy with sound but your sound mix is significantly clumsier than mine so you need to address this by working out what you want to do. Start by working out the volume level for the narrative, then the other elements. If you are doing it yourself, just learn the standard parameters for voiceover, music, background etc... and try not to deviate too much. Even better, find someone else who knows what to do.

    I borrow a Sennheiser 416, NTG2 and personally own an ECM 674. These are the mics I use which pick up the sound nicely and retain the colour in the voice.

    The recorder I use is a Fostex FR2-le. However, you could use a Tascam DR-100 which is my backup recorder in case my FR2-le fails at a critical moment.

    The thing between them is a mixer and mine is a Promix 3 which boosts the voice, improves the signal to noise ratio (i.e. reduces the hiss while boosting the colour in the voice) and is great.

    To monitor the sound, I use a lovely set of Sennheiser headphones although playback through different speakers, headphones etc... although I again reiterate I am just a rubbish amateur.

    Any of these elements will produce a significant improvement and all three together will generate a decent sound although 'soundies' will bitch like crazy about my suggestions as they don't go even halfway far enough for them. XXLRay is right to concentrate on sound treating the room but all three together will provide the boost.

    And incidentally, I love the idea of shooting boxing. If ever you need anything shot in London, please just let me know and I'd be happy to help out.

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