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Thread: Event crowd filming?

  1. #1

    Default Event crowd filming?

    Hard to know what to head this one. I have a show to film this weekend which also involves filming some minor celebrities arriving on the red carpet and mingling in the vip lounge after the show.
    I have cleared it with the organisers that the 'celeb's/agents have no problem with their clients being included in the show DVD and I'm also sure that filming in a public place outside the theatre is ok, probably ok in the vip lounge aftershow too, just not sure about the theatre foyer and the last thing I want is some oik deciding to veto the whole show DVD cause their mug is seen in the crowd.

    Anyone know for sure wether these are 'public' areas and ok to film anyone at all?
    My opinions are just that . . . Mine. It's not personal, but is based on my emotional and professional reaction to requested critique. If you choose to ignore constructive comments, I'll just assume you're a vanity poster and not posting to improve your filming and editing skills.

    Ex A.P.V Videomaker of the year - Ex M.M. IOV Come join my EXclusive club

  2. #2

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    I think you already know the answer. Outside the theatre is ok as it is a public place but the foyer, inside the theatre isn't BUT someone would have to be a real oik ( what ever that means) to be a spoiler, you could always blur a face or not show them if it happens. I usually put a notice on the door of an event I'm filming saying it will be filmed etc... any problems see a member of the film crew, just like they put a notice if there is CCTV in a building.

    I've never had an issue but I haven't filmed many events.

  3. #3
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    Hmmm ...
    When the Duchess of Cambridge was "papped" topless, a lot of the discussion revolved around peoples right to privacy and reasonable expectation of privacy.
    In your case, the theatre has given the go ahead (as you will be aware, they most certainly could stop you), the members of the audience are in a place where they it expect to be seen, I cannot see that they have any expectation of privacy. You are not identifying them (whereas you may be identifying the celebs, but you've got their OK)

    The BBC Guidelines probably carry more weight than my opinion: 7.4.3 (public and semi-public places) is relevant and 7.4.5 (filming on private property) only talks about stopping filming if the property owner requests it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidel...ivacy-consent/
    Tim

  4. #4

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    Cheers for the replies guys. It won't be possible to place notices around and as there will be dozens of other billboards around any spoilers could soon say they hadn't seen them anyway.
    Blurring faces would be a no go as It would have to be after the event otherwise everyone, celebs apart, would need a blur.
    The BBC link is still a little vague about what/where/when, so I guess I'll just have to be careful about how much coverage the crowd gets. A one off broadcast, is an over and done with thing, but to rework a dvd cost time and more importantly -profit.
    I've heard of others who have produced DVDs of events and have had to scrap, re-edit, re-burn whole scenes just because an 'oik' complained they hadn't given permission to be filmed, so I'm just being pre-cautious to be on the safe side.
    My opinions are just that . . . Mine. It's not personal, but is based on my emotional and professional reaction to requested critique. If you choose to ignore constructive comments, I'll just assume you're a vanity poster and not posting to improve your filming and editing skills.

    Ex A.P.V Videomaker of the year - Ex M.M. IOV Come join my EXclusive club

  5. #5
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    In my last BBC course I was told that the BBC guidelines are not law but just the way auntie deals with it.

    The law in the UK is that you can film anyone or anything with certain exceptions. The main ones being courts, military establishments, that sort of thing. Apart from identifying members of a jury or victims of sexual offences, when it comes to people you can film anyone in a public place (and that includes a place to which the public have access by payment or otherwise).
    The only other no-no is that you may not use images of a recognisable person to represent an opinion or endorse a product or to imply that they do.

    It seems that a lot of myths and rumours have built up and many production companies will avoid anything "just in case". But the internal guidelines for news crews state that if the camera is "obvious and visible" then it's up to the public to avoid getting in shot.

    Although it is not "illegal" to film someone with the intention of making them look stupid or silly, there are a large number of civil cases where people have been sued for large sums of money. But (according to the NUJ) this is only where the photographer/production set out with the intention of ridiculing the subject. If someone is drunk, or falls over in front of your camera, tough.

    Recent legislation means you may not film into private property to obtain images of a person without permission unless they are "exceptional circumstances". What those "exceptional circumstances" are will involve lawyers and money. Basically this is to stop paparazzi shooting into someone's garden or house. There is also a new offence of secretly filming someone without their permission for indecent purposes. To cover the camera hidden in the women's shower room and so on.

    None of which affect you but I'll mention it in case someone else gets nerdy.

    FYI. The BBC often blurs faces to avoid complaints but is not actually legally obliged to do so in the majority of cases. In the same way it seems that, with the current litigation culture, some companies are being ultra-careful when they actually don't need to be.
    Last edited by Rembrandt Rob; 08-01-2013 at 10:41 AM.

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    Thanks for the clarification Rob, which seems to support my stance. i wasn't suggesting the BBC guidelines were law, rather i posted them on the basis that theyw ould be well within the law (ie if they can do it, you can be pretty damn certain you can).

    Zero, you are not identifying anyone, so even if you were giving the impression they were endorsing something (which you are not) you're in the clear.

    When you sau "I've heard of others who have produced DVDs of events and have had to scrap, re-edit, re-burn whole scenes just because an 'oik' complained they hadn't given permission to be filmed" I suspect the makers caved in without good reason (or maybe just because they didn't fancy a fight or weren't confident of their position. The complainant would clear have to have more of a reason to object than they didn't give their permission.
    Tim

  7. #7

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    Cheers Rob - Very informative and I love the phrase, "if the camera is "obvious and visible" then it's up to the public to avoid getting in shot".
    but, as we all know it's common practise to use cutaways - a quick pan round to see who's watching and it's these I'll still have to be careful about, so guess I'll just have to have a neon sign on my head to say 'warning - camera may pan round at any given moment to film those behind the cam' or still risk the wrath of the oiks saying I wasn't expecting to be in shot - can't win, but just gonna grit my teeth and be as obvious as I can.
    Now I've been contacted by BBC look North to say they want clips and have sent a brief of clips they need which begs another question :-
    What's the going rate for clips used on TV?
    I've sent clips up to TV before but only ever been credited - Is there a line in the sand on broadcast rates for clips used?
    My opinions are just that . . . Mine. It's not personal, but is based on my emotional and professional reaction to requested critique. If you choose to ignore constructive comments, I'll just assume you're a vanity poster and not posting to improve your filming and editing skills.

    Ex A.P.V Videomaker of the year - Ex M.M. IOV Come join my EXclusive club

  8. #8
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    There is no "rule" for payments of clips used by the BBC anymore. There are some numbers still on various documents and banded about on various forums but they are not binding and generally ignored. In fact regional TV, which tends to be produced by less experienced producers, seems to think that people should be happy that the local news shows their stuff for free.

    You can (and should) insist that your name gets a verbal mention. That's easy for the presenter to say after the package "And thanks to Yorkie Zero for the images".

    Apart from that it really is what you can negotiate. I know it's not much help but It depends on how much footage they use, what it rates on the "newsworthy" scale and if they're going to repeat it in the later news highlights. Quite often the producer tries to see it as an "advert" for the event and expects the organiser to pay for the footage. A few media-savvy venues have started to give regional TV free footage of their event, seeing it as a free promo, and thus a trend of not broadcasters paying has been started.

    However, if the broadcaster wants it, then they should be prepared to pay. You should have in your mind that two hundred quid (no matter how little they use) is the minimum you're willing to accept unless you think that it's worth publicity for you and are willing to accept less, considering this as an advert.

    Since every pensioner, media student and wannabee would see this as an excuse to put the BBC as a "client" or "has worked for BBC, blah, blah blah" on their website nowadays, make sure you do the same! So many younsters give footage away free just so that they can claim to do work for the BBC, Sky, Channel 5 or whatever. I'm not talking about cases like yours where you're filming anyway but wannabees who go out specifically to film for regional TV.. For nothing!
    Now, it might also be worth you considering this as a freebie if, and only if, you think it will get you more work as a stringer but.... Don't believe the promises of the producer, get it on paper!

    Unfortunately in the last decade and especially in the last five years, the large number of muppets with a 5D who are willing to give their footage to the regional news just for the"honour" of having it broadcast has made it much harder for the rest of us to earn a living.
    Last edited by Rembrandt Rob; 08-02-2013 at 10:57 AM.

  9. #9

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    Chers Rob - They've given a brief of shots they require and a deadline for collection. It is a charity event and we're already donating but we can't just keep giving. It's adding another hours work to the job + an hour Sunday morning prepping files for collection at 9am.
    I'm happy with a credit too as I'd like to see the charity benefit from it, but it just makes you wonder when I see the charity PR people who are obviously on a good wage expecting others to "could you just do this for us".
    I'm not totally mercinary either but we do run a business that has bills to pay and if the BBC want to fill some airtime, however good the cause, they should also help support local businesses. I'll ask 200 and see how it goes.
    My opinions are just that . . . Mine. It's not personal, but is based on my emotional and professional reaction to requested critique. If you choose to ignore constructive comments, I'll just assume you're a vanity poster and not posting to improve your filming and editing skills.

    Ex A.P.V Videomaker of the year - Ex M.M. IOV Come join my EXclusive club

  10. #10
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    For your information, up until a few years ago the "going rate" for a freelance team consisting of cameraman, soundie, equipment (broadcast obviously not a 5d) and a vehicle was around 500 a day. For a half day "NIF" which is essentially what you're doing, they would pay about 350.

    However, times have changed...

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