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Thread: Need help creating new website!!

  1. #1

    Default Need help creating new website!!

    Afternoon chaps,

    A friend and I have just purchased a website and are currently in the process of attemtpting to set it up and create something we're not overly sure how to at the moment. On the face of it our idea is quite simple (without giving too much away for privacy reasons), we intend to take a bunch of videos each day, store them on a computer or somewhere, then somehow users will be able to access and edit these videos through the website. Ok, not entirely simple, but there must be a way it can be done so I thought you guys would be a good place to start.

    The complicated bit comes when the videos taken will only remain on the computer for a certain amount of time (eg. 30 days), and all the uploading needs to be done automatically rather than manually. Finding this quite hard to explain without giving anything away! I'll try running you through the process from scatch. Say we take 3 videos every day and each lasts and hour. They're stored on my computer under a dated folder and, for storage reasons, there's only 30 folders (one for each day) so on the 31st day the first folder gets overwritten again and the videos in that folder get replaced (much like CCTV storage). Somehow these videos need to be linked to our website (obstacle 1). It is possible to upload them manually everyday, but we need this process to be automatic. Forget bandwidth and other costs for the moment we're just looking to see if it's at all possible before we go into that. So that's the first problem. We're no idea if a website can be set up to manually synch and upload files, or whether a 'dropbox' type account can synch with files (videos) on a computer and then somehow have them linked to our site (embedded, perhaps?). Clueless, but again, if you don't ask you'll never know. Another point to consider at this stage is that there may be videos which aren't in demand and therefore aren't looked at at all, meaning they could stay on the computer and would have no need to be uploaded. The website (again, without giving too much away) will operate under a search basis, meaning a user who wants to view a video (eg. Video 1, 15th November) will search for the video and then be directed to it that way.

    If that wasn't confusing enough, here comes obstacle 2! A video will only ever be watched in its entirety (60mins) by a handful of people who have logged in, paid up and searched for the video. These few will be the ones who can edit the video. This, however, brings about 2 problems. Firstly, the edited video will need to remain online permanently, attached to the users account. For example, a user watches the video knowing that the monent he/she wants to look at and keep happens somewhere around the 45 minute mark. They find the footage they want and trim the clip down to the 10 or 15 seconds they need, which is then attached to their account for them to view as many times as they want, whilst the original video will be deleted from the system after the 30 days. The second issues arises when you consider that the orginal video needs to remain in its original state (60mins) for as many to view and edit as they wish, until the video is deleted (disconnected? Again, don't know the setup yet) after 30 days. So say one user wants a 10 second clip from around the 45 minute mark, another may want a 20 second clip from nearer the beginning, and they to must be able to view the same clip and edit as they wish. To save confusion, this system will be a lot like the youtube editor online software. Users can search for and access videos, edit them as they wish, then the edited clip is attached to their account/profile whilst the original clip remains untouched somewhere else. The edited video must be saved as a new and seperate video, not just an edited link, because once the original file is deleted the edited 10 seconds or so needs to remain on the site indefinitely until the user deletes it.

    Cheers for staying awake guys, any tips or pointers would be hugely appreciated. Even if one bit completely throws you but once bit makes sense and you have an idea how it might be achieved, would love to hear from you! Sorry I couldn't give more away but I hope it made some sort of sense, any questions feel free to ask.


  2. #2


    I think to accomplish this you would have to invest an enormous amount of money, on a par with Google's bank balance to achieve it. Even then, I think the idea is full of insurmountable obstacles like slow internet speeds, laggy response between an internet based server and the user. I can only see this been possible in 5 or 10 years time when technology is more available and affordable. Otherwise it will be a massive loss maker for you. I'm sure you will disagree with my view otherwise you wouldn't be going for it.
    I know you said how can it be done and not why shouldn't it be done, so I'll shut up and just say good luck.

  3. #3


    Midnight blue,

    Thanks for the encouragement, expected most responses to be along those lines!

    But you say these words as if you know something about the potential setup and the costs involved...yet failed to mention how one might go about it! Or was it more a case of you just assume it can be done but no idea how, just that it would cost a lot of money? Google still started somehwere, just a case of starting small and building as and when you can afford to, obviously don't have the time or money to create a finished product quite yet but a step in the right direction would probably be a decent place to start. Then once we've got to grips of how to go about it we could look at increasing video amounts, quickening the process etc. Even if I began setting it up manually there's almost definitely a way I can do it for free tomorrow, the costs will incur when I look to make the process automatic and increase the whole volume of traffic, so uploading, editing, storage etc.


  4. #4


    Well I don't really have all the answers BUT some of what your planning is simple like the uploading can easily be done by setting up an ftp server but the file sizes could be very large and take a long time to upload. If your customer had an hour of SD video in DV format that would be around 80 Gb to up load. I only have upload speeds of around 450 kbps so god knows how long it would take to up load 80Gb

    Here is a something I took from Wiki on how to work out the file size

    "An example video can have a duration (T) of 1 hour (3600sec), a frame size of 640x480 (WxH) at a color depth of 24bits and a frame rate of 25fps. This example video has the following properties:
    • pixels per frame = 640 * 480 = 307,200
    • bits per frame = 307,200 * 24 = 7,372,800 = 7.37Mbits
    • bit rate (BR) = 7.37 * 25 = 184.25Mbits/sec
    • video size (VS)[3] = 184Mbits/sec * 3600sec = 662,400Mbits = 82,800Mbytes = 82.8Gbytes"
    Now when your talking about HD footage the files can be even larger, however they are highly compressed from most domestic cameras so may in fact be smaller.
    BUT at the down load speeds I get, that would take a week to upload who is going to want to do that. When editing video it has to be in a format that is editable and not the rubbish you see on YouTube. Then there is the problem of playing uncompressed video over the internet. My camera shoots at 100 Mb bit-rate per second try getting that to play in any kind of editable way down the internt. Once you start doing things like colour correction on it even my PC struggles.

    These are just some of the issues I think you won't be able to overcome until technology catches up with your ambition.

  5. #5


    To save confusion, this system will be a lot like the youtube editor online software
    STOP, Sorry, But this is not going to be simple and free. No matter how much work you actually put into it, this will get very expensive very quickly.
    Take a look at this report someone drew up about how youtube did what they did

    know thats not what you were looking for but to do what you want to do on the scale of what you want to do really is going to take a huge commitment of resources and time, You'll need a lot scripting, managed servers, plenty of dedicated hosts.

    But, there is hope
    f you take a look at these guys and the story they have written. They've recently partnered up with Blackberry and now have their product on Rim devices. A small team can make big things happen.
    Part of how the above guys became so successful? They provided their service free of charge. Your thinking of a service to charge people, Given the advent of digital technology, I'd wonder what footage you would be uploading that would make it so inviting for end users to pay monthly to view/edit that footage. And as you said, Youtube is offering their online editor for free as well.

    And as for Google,
    Google - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    They got an investment of one hundred thousand dollars, after presenting their search engine code to the co-founder of a big time company. You won't be able to start the service without serious cash, But you CAN work on a product strategy, develop the code as much as you can and PRESENT it to Investors.
    Last edited by Bpotter908; 11-19-2011 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #6


    Midnight Blue,

    I don't think 1 hour of footage would equate to 8gb, we recently bought a 16gb SD card and have so far, in HD (or at least the quality we need) recorded well over 5 hours of footage. We are also looking at a dedicated fibre optic broadban line, meaning uploading becomes less of an issue. In terms of video playback, the customer will never be allowed to download the whole 60 minutes as a file, they will simply be streaming it. In fact, they'll never be given then option to download any footage, simply to edit existing footage and have it attached to their account. I don't see how this would be a mammoth ask as bbc iplayer, 4od etc provide streaming of clips of about an hour and whether I'm at home, at my girlfriends house or at work, I never struggle with buffering and can always just click and watch. The editing is a completely, different issue, granted, but we're more than willing to put a fair amount of money into this, so if it's possible we'll make it happen, I was just looking for ways it could be done rather than a long list of reasons why it will be tough!


    Not ever for a single minute did we think this would be anything near free, we always kne we'd have to save up a lot of funds, quit our jobs, probably employ a team (but if we could do any of it ourselves we would, hence I'm here) and probably also look for investment. I'm also well aware that youtube spent all their profits from their first year on bandwidth ($100,000,000 or something ridiculous), but you know what they say, every 5 years technology gets twice as good and half as expensive. We're realistic, but costs aside, we're looking at how it could work, not a long list of challenges. However, it's looking more and more that for novices like myself it would be almost impossible to learn and setup. Do you know what sort of people we should be approaching if we were to look at assembling a team? Or if there's anything we could do ourselves before getting people in? The editing software used by youtube, do you think this was developed in house or by a 3rd party? As this is very near to the type of sotfware we'll be needing, if anything in fact it's excessively complex. We simply need a cropping device to trim the length of a clip and attach it to an account. I guess the term editing has connotation of speed, transitions, colour balance etc, we simply need cropping. Oh and cheers for the link on the architecture of youtube, really useful.

    Cheers guys,


  7. #7


    I'm sorry it feels like we're just throwing challenges at you, but this truly is a mammoth task.
    As for what did YouTube use, that's like asking how the engine of xyz car was built, a piece of information not shouted about by the factory but if you take the engine to bits and you are in the know you could probably figure it out.

    You will not be able to drive this from your home, not without a heavy bandwidth capable setup and I'm talking 6ft tall racks of servers, firewalls, routers and switchers.

    Before you spend any more money, work out the following.

    How many users will use the service
    How much data per file will be streamed
    Where will footage come from and what format that needs to be
    What will users be allowed to do/not do
    Security of payment details and processing of money
    How you will establish yourself as a registered company and copyright your code/name/brand

    The next step is to contact say the BBC, and ask very nicely how their Iplayer service works from a technical point of view, they might turn around and say get lost, or they'll say, "ok, here's how"

    Your looking for how their infrastructure is set up. Then build a system diagram of your website, what server boxes will do what, then contact data hosts, ask them for quotations, then contact software development houses, get in touch with website scripters and coders, ask them can they do it, get quotes.

    Then do market research which proves potential customers will come knocking. Work out how you will advertise once service is ready and pre-advertising prior to launch.

    Then compile all that information and review it, decide if you really really want to go through with it.

    Please don't give up your day job be for this before careful research and planning has been done. Your a long long way off competing on the scale of the Bbc or Iplayer.

  8. #8


    I am obviously not duplicating your idea. As your remarks indicate to me you are not really talking about video editing in the same way I understand video editing. The flash based streaming you see on YouTube, iPlayer 4OD etc. is not really what I would call editable video footage. I'm not saying you can't edit this stuff but I am asking myself why would you want to.

    [QUOTE][I don't think 1 hour of footage would equate to 8gb/QUOTE] Yes, it does in mini DV format, the most common commercial tape format. Read my previous answer and you will see that I state " however they are highly compressed from most domestic cameras so may in fact be smaller" AVCHD which is a very common HD format is a very compressed format, if you know what I mean by compressed format then you will understand the issues with dealing with that type of video format. You do state that " (or at least the quality we need) " which is fair enough if you are not needing the best quality. This again means we are not on the same page when talking about video editing. When I mentioned the size of files I was thinking under the misinterpretation that your subscribers would be uploading the footage to your servers so if that is not the case then file size is purely academic.

    Without more information on your business model I don't see what value is being offered to a subscribers of your site, why they only have access to 10 seconds of footage that they can edit. UNLESS it is some sort of role play game. Even then it doesn't seem to offer any great return without massive investment. BUT this is probably why I'm not an internet millionaire.

    I just hope you guys think this idea through before you start throwing serious money at it.

    I wish you luck.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Kingsbridge, Devon, UK


    If the files are to stay on your PC and be accessed by your website I believe an ordinary telephone line will not be up to doing this. It sounds a bit like hosting your own website on your PC and to do this you really need a dedicated line with a static IP address. This used to be expensive but I see some companies are offering free static IP addresses although I guess you probably get what you pay for. However, a bigger problem is standard broadband is configured to download quickly but upload much more slowly - at about a tenth of the speed typically. This is no good if users are accessing the files on your PC - and I assume you want multiple access, not just a single user at a time.

    If you want to explore the options give BT Business a call and discuss it with them - although there could be other providers but at least this will give you an idea what it is going to cost and even if it possible in the area you live.
    Last edited by RoofTops; 11-20-2011 at 06:17 PM.

  10. #10


    Our company has the ability to stream a HD feed from a studio live to the web, but we do not host said website in the building! We use our bandwidth to stream the footage to a specialised data centre and that centre then bounces the footage to any user who clicks onto it.

    The idea of trying to stream GBs of data point to point is one thing....but 100 users all try to view different data all at the same time? A BT router would fall over!

    I've re-read the original statement and actually I fear my statements were written in vain...oh well!

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