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Thread: XF100 Video Quality

  1. Default XF100 Video Quality

    Does anyone know how to achieve this kind of quality of picture from the Canon XF100? I know the pictures been cleaned and color graded but the clarity of the picture is something that has to come right from the camera right? Or is it something done in post production you think?


  2. #2

    Default

    We've had many conversations about this via forum PM, I'll post a short summary so other users can respond:

    Lazymonkeygod:
    "Oh btw, I was just talking about the clarity and crispness of that clip that I aspire to, not the composition or anything. I take videos at high def and full resolution on my XF100. But I can't seem to get the clarity that that video has."
    My reply
    Ahhh! But is it Full HD?
    Could you post me the spec of your camera please?
    LazymonkeyGod
    Full HD is what my camera records. How does that affect the quality that comes from my camera?
    ME
    http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Prod...ssional/XF100/
    According to Canon's website, It records onto 2 flash cards using an mpeg compression at 50MBps at maximum.
    This is not "Full HD" as Full HD requires a 200MBps ratio. ( Or higher! )
    Also the quality of the look is more down to the lens inside the camera rather than the ability to record a HD data stream.
    LazymonkeyGod
    now i'm confused..." up to 1920 x 1080 Full HD at 50Mbps (4:2:2)"
    The word "Full HD" continues to show up in it's specs...
    And what I will say to that is:
    The cost of going properly full HD is 5-40K for the system, the storage and the capture hardware. And a camera that is capable of capturing the full HD resoloution ( Bit rate of 4:4:4 rather than 4:2:2 )
    Also you need to note that a 20K standard definition camera lens will always look superior to a 3K HD camera lens. Depending on the camera he has, The quality of the lens and image processing built into it might be good before he even reaches the editor! Also when you are out-putting the video, are you using an export that is appropiate for the quality of the input?

    This is a mine-field to navigate and I do not fully understand it myself, What I do know comes from presentation systems for full HD content, Fibre optic tranmistters to carry the HD signal! Tens of thousands on hardware to display the content and that is before you even make it.

    Other users are more qualified than I am to explain further and I may be wrong in my use of terminologies.
    In data world, Full HD is 8000x4123 ( Or something, You can find the largest resoloution on wikipedia, but most record in 4000x **** resoloution known as 4K )

    In terms of improving your camera!
    • Set proper white-balance with a white sheet and set it manually.
    • Use manual focus all the way, You can get superior results with it!
    • Learn the rule of thirds and apply them to your shoots.
    • If possible, rent a second camera for the pricy weddings and position it in a location to get a get out of jail wide shot of the ceremony. Whilst you adjust your camera position. ( or mid shot of the couple )
    • Try using the Iris of the camera to make it "bright enough" on the camera, Also make use of the ND filter and tweak the shutter speeds slightly, Always a better option than making it "brighter" in post. Any faffing you do to the original file that is drastic, will most likely drop quality!
    Last edited by Bpotter908; 09-29-2011 at 05:29 PM.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bpotter908 View Post
    We've had many conversations about this via forum PM, I'll post a short summary so other users can respond:

    Lazymonkeygod:
    "Oh btw, I was just talking about the clarity and crispness of that clip that I aspire to, not the composition or anything. I take videos at high def and full resolution on my XF100. But I can't seem to get the clarity that that video has."
    My reply
    Ahhh! But is it Full HD?
    Could you post me the spec of your camera please?
    LazymonkeyGod
    Full HD is what my camera records. How does that affect the quality that comes from my camera?
    ME
    http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Prod...ssional/XF100/
    According to Canon's website, It records onto 2 flash cards using an mpeg compression at 50MBps at maximum.
    This is not "Full HD" as Full HD requires a 200MBps ratio. ( Or higher! )
    Also the quality of the look is more down to the lens inside the camera rather than the ability to record a HD data stream.
    LazymonkeyGod
    now i'm confused..." up to 1920 x 1080 Full HD at 50Mbps (4:2:2)"
    The word "Full HD" continues to show up in it's specs...
    And what I will say to that is:
    The cost of going properly full HD is 5-40K for the system, the storage and the capture hardware. And a camera that is capable of capturing the full HD resoloution ( Bit rate of 4:4:4 rather than 4:2:2 )
    Also you need to note that a 20K standard definition camera lens will always look superior to a 3K HD camera lens. Depending on the camera he has, The quality of the lens and image processing built into it might be good before he even reaches the editor! Also when you are out-putting the video, are you using an export that is appropiate for the quality of the input?

    This is a mine-field to navigate and I do not fully understand it myself, What I do know comes from presentation systems for full HD content, Fibre optic tranmistters to carry the HD signal! Tens of thousands on hardware to display the content and that is before you even make it.

    Other users are more qualified than I am to explain further and I may be wrong in my use of terminologies.
    In data world, Full HD is 8000x4123 ( Or something, You can find the largest resoloution on wikipedia, but most record in 4000x **** resoloution known as 4K )

    In terms of improving your camera!
    • Set proper white-balance with a white sheet and set it manually.
    • Use manual focus all the way, You can get superior results with it!
    • Learn the rule of thirds and apply them to your shoots.
    • If possible, rent a second camera for the pricy weddings and position it in a location to get a get out of jail wide shot of the ceremony. Whilst you adjust your camera position. ( or mid shot of the couple )
    • Try using the Iris of the camera to make it "bright enough" on the camera, Also make use of the ND filter and tweak the shutter speeds slightly, Always a better option than making it "brighter" in post. Any faffing you do to the original file that is drastic, will most likely drop quality!
    Sorry if I don't quite get it, I understand I need to set white balance, use manual focus and control lighting. I have used those settings and tried to vary them many times. But for some reason the quality that comes out just isn't the same clear quality as that in the video that I've referred to. I don't believe the referred video is done in true "Full HD". What I'm trying to find out is whether it's just a matter that I'm a noob or is it a limitation of my XF100. I've seen a tonne of sample clips of the XF100 online as well but none of them display the kind of quality as that of the referred video.

  4. #4

    Default

    I also doubt very much that the above video did a "Full HD" shoot, I am simply trying to say that for our ( Most of us ) budets, True full HD is unattainable! ( At this moment in time )

    Also, I checked the cost of your XF100 and it is ( According to the cheapest price on Google ) 2,140 to buy brand new.
    The video guy on that video might have a camera that will set you back by 4000 and have the same HD capability, But the quality of the lens and image processors will be better.
    But then he could have spent 8K, or 10K.

    Key thing is, If you are looking for a new camera, Visit a few reliable dealers of professional camera kit, Ask if you can "test" their cameras at their warehouse and see how the footage comes out.

  5. #5

    Default

    I think you have a very full answer from Bpotter908. One other thing to look at is a good DSLR. You can get very nice picture quality with their big sensors for the price but you still have to have a good lens to really benefit from it.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bpotter908 View Post
    I also doubt very much that the above video did a "Full HD" shoot, I am simply trying to say that for our ( Most of us ) budets, True full HD is unattainable! ( At this moment in time )

    Also, I checked the cost of your XF100 and it is ( According to the cheapest price on Google ) 2,140 to buy brand new.
    The video guy on that video might have a camera that will set you back by 4000 and have the same HD capability, But the quality of the lens and image processors will be better.
    But then he could have spent 8K, or 10K.

    Key thing is, If you are looking for a new camera, Visit a few reliable dealers of professional camera kit, Ask if you can "test" their cameras at their warehouse and see how the footage comes out.
    So I guess what you're suggesting is it might be a limitation of the camera to not be able to capture clear images like the example I gave. That's a bummer...Nonetheless I always believe in "it's the user, not the tool". But just a good to know I guess. Thanks for being so patient with me Bpotter.

  7. #7

    Default

    I would agree that it is usually the user. Well in my case it is.

  8. #8

    Default

    If you think I'm being patient with you...You should have met me when I was starting out. I was a genuine class A pain in the backside who thought he knew everything ( I suspect I still think that even now )

    Whilst I agree, A bad workman blames his tools, But even a fantastic workman needs the right tool for the job. I advise you to keep learning how to "use" your camera to shoot/compose shots learn how to build an edit on the fly, how to think 5 steps ahead in the ceremony and think in 3 steps time where will I need to be?

    Such a skill is not one honed by the largest 50K camera, It is honed by the skill of the workman and lots of practice over years of experience.

    And bear in mind, I can only think 3 shots ahead when filming and plan to be there by 1 step. I still have a long way to go...

    OH and for my own curiosity I learn that most cinema setups will only go to a 2K resolution. ( However I learnt this based on an article from 3 years ago, so perhaps all modern cinema systems now use 4K resolution, or maybe higher! )
    Last edited by Bpotter908; 09-29-2011 at 08:52 PM.

  9. #9

    Default

    We have no problems getting clear & sharp images from the XF100. I don't see the problem in 'good' light. If you need to thrown some gain in there then you get the obvious noise that needs some reductions, resulting in a little less than perfect. Even so, for shots that are not super sharp, there's always sharpening tools in post. We've found the XF100 to be significantly sharper than DSLRs in some circumstances.

    Having said this, I often look at the weather on the US trailers with envy, compared to the more usual less than blue skies we get here :(

  10. #10
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    Default

    I think you'll find that the XF100 will out-perform most DSLRs!

    Contrary to what the manufacturers claim, In my experience the DSLR tends to be "worse" that most camcorders in low-light situations.
    (At least the 5D and 7D are, dunno about the others)

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