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Thread: Smoothness gone after editing - need help

  1. #1

    Default Smoothness gone after editing - need help

    Hi

    I'm experiencing a frustrating problem.

    I recently bought a Samsung HMX-H200 full HD camcorder. I record at 1080/50i (AVCHD/MP4). When I connect the camcorder directly to my television (an old standard PAL television, scart/composite connection), the recorded files play back as they are supposed to do (very smoothly).

    But when I edit the files on my pc, I always get this jerky effect, the video loses its smoothness. I edit the files with PowerDirector 8, but I also tried with MovieMaker, which gives the same problem.

    I tried using all kinds of export settings, going from WMV to AVHCD, going from progressive scan to interlaced (top and bottom field first), and using different frame rates. Always the same jerky result...

    The loss of smoothness can be detected when viewing the files on my pc, but is also very noticeable when viewing the edited movie on my television. The finished movie is put on a Samsung Story Station, which is connected to a WD HD TV Live player, which is then connected to my television (composite/scart).

    I experienced the same problem when converting my old VHS tapes. Using my DVD-HDD recorder, I recorded the VHS tapes to DVD discs. Those DVD discs played very well (smoothly). But when I ripped those DVD discs to WMV i.e. the same problem occured: smoothness was gone. The files still played back well, but not as smooth as when the DVD discs were played back. Finally I resolved that issue by buying and using TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 3 to rip the DVD discs. Instead of ripping and re-encoding the video, I think TMPGEnc just kind of 'copies' the original MPEG-2 files from the DVD discs without altering them. Those 'ripped' files play back very well on my pc ánd on my television (through the WD HD TV Live player): very smoothly; no loss whatsoever.

    So my question is: what exactly is causing this loss of smoothness??? I am now desperate. I believe I have tried everything...

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Can you post some samples to view?

  3. #3

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    Hi Marc

    Thanks for replying.

    I uploaded a small sequence: WMV 1280x720 PAL 25fps 8000Mbps and it should be interlaced.

    Here's the download link: 2shared - file upload
    Download password = test

    You will notice a white pole whilst panning from right to left. This panning gives a kind of jitter and is not smooth (compared with the original file played back directly on my television).

    Any ideas?

  4. #4
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    Hi rudyvt,

    I think you will find wmv is progressive and will give you a film like look (jerky), you need a program that you can be sure does interlaced upper field first, I use a simple editing program called Corel Video Studio Pro X3 in this I can select a preset call (same as first video clip) this gives me an AVCHD 1920x1080i that is identical to the original video, I have now taken it one stage further by downloading a AVCHD from a friends camera that is at a higher bit rate to my camera and turned it into a black lead in for my videos this makes it the first video clip, that way I get edited videos at a slightly higher bit rate than my original and get very good results.

    My camera is a Canon HF10 and the short video clip I use for lead in is from a Canon HF200 so the files are compatible.

    Bryan

  5. #5

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    Thanks for your reply Bryan.

    Well, I also experience that my original files, when placed on my portable hdd and played back through my media player, do not play well at all. They are jerky, and even more jerky than when converted. Very strange, it is.

    I also must remark that in PowerDirector, the software I use, I always select an output format that is interlaced. So one would expect the finished movie to be interlaced... but apparently it is not.

    Thanks to your message I downloaded a trial version of Corel Video Studio Pro X3. And guess what, it works! This program indeed does produce interlaced videos that play back very well on my old television. Smoothness is back.

    I don't understand very well the fact that PowerDirector is unable to produce that kind of videos...

    Another question: with Corel I tried to produce an interlaced 1920x1080 AVCHD, upper field first. But when played back on my television it gave green jitter all across the screen... Any explanation for this phenomenon?

    However, when I export in the HDV output preset, all works fine. There isn't however a 1280x720 interlaced output possibility, which I would like to use... I am now obliged to export in 1440x1080 interlaced... Are there any possibilities to change this?

    And another question: will my interlaced movie play back well on a modern HDMI television (which uses progressive scan)? Or do I have to keep the original files just to make sure I am able to produce a progressive scan movie at a later time?

    Many thanks!

  6. #6
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    Hi rudyvt,

    I wonder if the green flashes on the edited video is from the conversion by the WD media player not matching your TV, or does it happen when you play it on the computer,

    On Corels web site they have an update to enable the program to correctly match some of the new cameras, it might help.
    Patches and Updates - Patches and Updates

    If you get a new LCD TV it will play interlaced, it's the way I do all my videos, I use a WD HD Media player connected by HDMI to a 37inch LCD TV and it playes fine using 1920x1080i at 24Mbps,

    When you make a video on Corel it is better if you don't use "Smart Render" in theory it's supposed to speed up rendering but it can put in glitches like miss placed frames, so if you see it in the options box de-select it, that's why I always use the "Sames as first video clip" and I make sure it doesn't do a smart render.

    I also found that I get better results from conversion for Vimeo and You-tube by using CCCP codec pack rather than K-Lite maybe just my system but I had problems with out of sync audio on conversions I did until I changed the codec pack.

    If you make DVD's from AVCHD using Corel you have to go into "Settings" then to "Project properties" and "edit" then change the out put to upper field first or it will default to lower field first and look awful with interlace jitter.

    Bryan

  7. #7

    Default Another problem

    Hi

    Thanks Bryan, for your help. I finally tested another program, Pinnacle Studio 14, which also works fine. I am now happy with the result: smooth video, nice titles and transitions.

    There is one thing that bothers me: the video stabilizer in Corel gives a choppy result. The video is stabilized, but with glitches in it. Anyone else experienced this? I also tried the Pinnacle stabilizer: it is better, but it doesn't seem to work with interlaced video. When I stabilize using Pinnacle, smoothness is gone again... No stabilizing is the only solution it seems.

    I am having another problem. Because of audio-video sync issues when recording 1920x1080i (it seems my camcorder cannot handle this like it should), I would like to record at 1280x720p, which seems to give less sync problems. I've done a few tests. But then I experience this confusing problem: when I play back the original file on my old PAL television (through the WD media player) the file plays back fine, very smoothly (though it is progressive scan). But when I edit the file using Corel, Pinnacle, PowerDirector, or whatever program, smoothness is gone... I tried every output option, going from 1920x1080i to keeping as close to the original as possible: MP4 1280x720p 50fps.

    I've finally solved the 1920x1080 smoothness problem (thanks again Bryan), and now I get this... I am confused...

    Any ideas?

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Nelson, New Zealand
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    I have had the same problems trying to stabilize video with Corel. I've found the only way is using a tripod and switching off the optical stabilizer to get the best results. then having to accepting the results when you use the optical stabilizer, I do some video from a Seaeagle paddle ski and if I use the sails I have nowhere to fit a tripod, it gets tricky one hand holding the camera, one holding the main sheet and using my knee to steer. you can see the problems on this and I have never had any luck at stabilizing the video with any program I have tried so I don't know what the solution is short of getting a Steadicam.

    When you use 720P it would be better to stay with progressive, when you select "same as first video clip" do you still get the problems. you might have to go into the "project properties" and change to "frame-based"

    When you say the camera has video-sync problems do you see this when you play from the camera or just form the WD media player or are your problems with the edited video. it could be a codec problem or the program is converting the audio to something the WD can't handle, sometimes the program defaults LPCM audio I always change it to Dolby digital if I have the option.

    Come on Marc were are you I'm running out of ideas.

    Bryan
    Last edited by wandering-free; 09-21-2010 at 12:51 AM.

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