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Thread: cheaper than bluray but next best thing?

  1. #1

    Default cheaper than bluray but next best thing?

    Right so this could be in this forum or nedia studio but here goes:
    My sony saves filesas AVCHD.
    On the PMB software it looks stunning
    It edits fine on my laptop , and when I put it on youtube it looks pretty good


    for youtube i only have joy saving as mpeg custom, all settings at highest.
    the best picture quality i get is DVD but I would say its about 70% of the quality of the clips i can play unedited... So whats the best sharpest format to save a project as without spending £££s on a bluray writer and player?

    Would about DVD players that "upscale to HD" £36 at tesco?
    is this 80% as good as bluray for 80% less money?

    Is there a format that looks great?
    I've tried "save as original file" ...it looks ok, but doesn't play on pmb and is still .mpeg..
    Al

  2. #2
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    Default Out dated BluRay Technology Vs AVCHD.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexleominster View Post
    Right so this could be in this forum or media studio but here goes:
    Quote Originally Posted by alexleominster View Post
    My Sony saves files as AVCHD.
    On the PMB software it looks stunning
    It edits fine on my laptop , and when I put it on you tube it looks pretty good
    YouTube - red kite feeding frenzy with Alex Sally in Wales

    for youtube i only have joy saving as mpeg custom, all settings at highest.
    the best picture quality i get is DVD but I would say its about 70% of the quality of the clips i can play unedited... So whats the best sharpest format to save a project as without spending £££s on a bluray writer and player?

    Would about DVD players that "upscale to HD" £36 at tesco?
    is this 80% as good as bluray for 80% less money?

    Is there a format that looks great?
    I've tried "save as original file" ...it looks ok, but doesn't play on pmb and is still .mpeg..
    Al
    I wouldn’t waste my money on any disk player, especially if you have a DVD burner installed on your computer..

    I personally am waiting for movies to be placed on solid state memory "Memory Cards", and I am betting that the format would more than likely be AVCHD or similar..

    So with your Raw camcorders videos I would edit and save them as AVCHD videos, simply because most new Multimedia players - that one connects to ones TV can play them and whats more with full surround sound if your sony records in 5.1 sound and in Full High Definition..

    If editing your videos, make sure your editor leaves much of your RAW video as is, "I use Corels VideoStudio" as this slashes rendering times to a bare minimum, but importantly with no loss of definition to ones precious videos..

    Good Luck and cheers,

    Pete.
    May the Universe return a hundred
    fold what you charge unto others

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post

    So with your Raw camcorders videos I would edit and save them as AVCHD videos, simply because most new Multimedia players -

    If editing your videos, make sure your editor leaves much of your RAW video as is, "I use Corels VideoStudio" as this slashes rendering times to a bare minimum, but importantly with no loss of definition to ones precious videos..

    Good Luck and cheers,

    Pete.
    Cheers Pete,
    I must be doing something wrong because if I save a file as AVCHD it comes out of corel ending in .mpeg and plays good but nothing like as good as the original in PMB player..?
    In fact I MUST be doing something wrong
    alex

  4. #4
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    Default

    For a standard dvd disc the data rate used to make a a dvd video is a lot less than that used for an original avchd file, so the quality will go down. If you want a high quality finished disc, you will need a blue ray burner on your computer and burn onto blank blue ray discs, the data rate used on these is many times higher than your standard dvd discs.

  5. #5

    Default

    Cheers Nikosony, (not your real name I guess )
    I think the penny is finally dropping about the whole formats thing. I rewatched one of my vids on dvd today , on the telly, and it was better picture than i remembered.

    The thing I don't get really is why video studio doesn't save in the same quality as the original avchd file. When I click that option it goes ahead and does it as mpeg.
    Point taken about the blu ray though.
    Ta
    alex

  6. #6
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    Default How to avoid AVCHD Definition Loss using Prox2

    Quote Originally Posted by alexleominster View Post
    Cheers Pete,
    I must be doing something wrong because if I save a file as AVCHD it comes out of Coral ending in .mpeg and plays good but nothing like as good as the original in PMB player..?
    In fact I MUST be doing something wrong
    alex
    Hi Alexeominster,
    the ".mpg" extension is just fine,

    NEXT - If your Camcorder records at 30 frames a second "NTSC" AVCHD and then you are saving your videos to a Pal AVCHD format which BTW is 25 frames a second - that could be why losses also occur.. Don't panic yet if your camcorder is a AVCHD Pal and your saving your videos as Pal AVCHD, this also goes for raw AVCHD NTSC video being saved as NTSC AVCHD videos..

    The next thing that may have you loose definition is, if your ProX2 is not set to Best re-sampling, so that no further compression is applied..

    This critical setting can be found by going to your preferences "located top left of ProX2" by selecting first [File]and down the menu [Preferences...] and then selecting the edit tab, where from the top of this panel, you may choose Pal or NTSC colour filtering, this must be set to what your Raw videos are, NOW - just under that, we have re-sampling quality, which I set to BEST so that my videos don't receive further compression..

    And finally, we set smart render enabled but we do this as we are about to save our projects final video via the [Share] tab then [create File] and then the appropriate AVCHD frame size, to which once the Saving Panel pops up - we go to the options button, once the options panel is presented we ensure smart rendering is enabled and importantly under the compression tab that slider is slid all the way to the right, I also would ensure the bit rate further down and just above the sound options it is set at 18000 kbps VBR..

    and while there, one can also ensure Dolby digital 5.1 is selected if they want surround sound, ** But note ** doing so will force a Full re-sampling of the video if your videos are not recorded with 5.1 sound to them..

    Now here's the thing, and its HUGE! - About half the users of Corals Prox2 are experiencing problems with smart rendering enabled, so if you notice your videos are not smooth from start to finish, using smart render, you may have to disable it and disregard this fantastic feature, which will BTW have you re-sample all of your videos, regardless, and in doing so take a very long time but at least with the above mentioned setting- no loss in definition should be experienced..

    If you're lucky like me and your videos come out OK with smart rendering enabled and all the above settings are as detailed, then most of your videos should be the raw video, simply because it is not re-sampled and or compressed, mind you this only is possible if your raw video is the same AVCHD format that Coral is about to save it too, and this goes for any other format one uses, for example lets say your raw video is DV and you save your video as DV.. Rendering takes next to nothing..

    A clue that smart rendering and no compression is being applied BTW is when one is saving the final video and where the added titles and or effects are being rendered the preview of rendering slows down to playing speed, but for the parts of video not being re-rendered its like full on fast forward..

    Hope I have helped,

    Cheers and good luck..

    Pete..
    May the Universe return a hundred
    fold what you charge unto others

  7. #7
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    Default

    Hi Alex, It's like Pete says about the glitches caused by Smart Render, unfortunately I'm in the category of the ones that get glitches, it shows as hesitations or frames out of place, a bit like dropped frames sometimes, a lot depends on the number of cuts you do whether it is noticeable but most of my editing is 3 to 4 sec shots so if I get 10% of them as glitches it shows up.

    I also have a problem with only getting a 70% quality render even when I select 100%, when outputting as AVCHD 1920x1080i, the way to check is get a 10MB file say with plenty of movement something like windblown trees or waves breaking something that makes the encoder really work hard, and slide the slider from it's 70%default setting to 100 percent and see if your video is 10MB or only 7MB, mine always comes out at 7 even with the same settings Pete uses so I have to go through the trouble of making an AVCHD disc copy which that gives me the full 100% render.

    This is making sure you switch off Smart Render in Options.

    I then put my videos on a usb2 HDD and watch them using a WD TV Media Player, it handles the AVCHD 1920x1080i and plays back through HDMI, it's much cheaper than a Blue-ray player.
    Regards Bryan
    Last edited by wandering-free; 09-26-2009 at 05:38 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Out dated BluRay Technology Vs Cheaper & Superior AVCHD.

    Quote Originally Posted by wandering-free View Post
    Hi Alex, It's like Pete says about the glitches caused by Smart Render, unfortunately I'm in the category of the ones that get glitches, it shows as hesitations or frames out of place, a bit like dropped frames sometimes, a lot depends on the number of cuts you do whether it is noticeable but most of my editing is 3 to 4 sec shots so if I get 10% of them as glitches it shows up.

    I also have a problem with only getting a 70% quality render even when I select 100%, when outputting as AVCHD 1920x1080i, the way to check is get a 10MB file say with plenty of movement something like windblown trees or waves breaking something that makes the encoder really work hard, and slide the slider from it's 70%default setting to 100 percent and see if your video is 10MB or only 7MB, mine always comes out at 7 even with the same settings Pete uses so I have to go through the trouble of making an AVCHD disc copy which that gives me the full 100% render.

    This is making sure you switch off Smart Render in Options.

    I then put my videos on a usb2 HDD and watch them using a WD TV Media Player, it handles the AVCHD 1920x1080i and plays back through HDMI, it's much cheaper than a Blue-ray player.
    Regards Bryan
    Yep, I am doing this as well Bryan, only I am using a computer that connects to my Plasma via an available HDMI input for the time being, Although I will soon replace this computer with a dedicated HD Multimedia media Player that has two digital tuners and wifi on-board so I can save or stream videos to it..

    BTW - Here's the latest video I had to put together for my Daughter, recorded in an NTSC AVCHD format, saved as a Pal AVCHD, Rendering took hours, and as one can see - once the video has to be down sized for you-tube, which has as the only options available to me as Pal Formats, even if I wish to insist NTSC colour filtering and format is what I want, <sigh> which with Pal AVCHD the final video results as a very jerky video specially when one is panning, and this is no matter what the speed of panning one slows down too!..

    This I reason is the fault of going from 30 frames a second to 25 frames a second..

    *** NOTE ***

    If you are going to view my latest video,and if your maximum bandwidth is around 1.5 Mbs or less, I highly recommend you pause it and allow at least 3/4 of it to load up before playing it..

    enjoy,

    Cheers,

    Pete..
    May the Universe return a hundred
    fold what you charge unto others

  9. #9

    Default

    Wow! thanks guys for the really detailed replies this is just what I needed to know.
    Going through my "settings" on corel I don't know if my sony cx11e records in pal or ntsc?. It says in the spec avchd .
    Either way this has givin loads of info to get my settings right.
    Many many thanks
    Alex

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alexleominster View Post
    Wow! thanks guys for the really detailed replies this is just what I needed to know.
    Going through my "settings" on corel I don't know if my Sony cx11e records in pal or ntsc?. It says in the spec avchd .
    Either way this has given loads of info to get my settings right.
    Many many thanks
    Alex
    You're welcome Alex,

    Now - I know for a fact the Sony HDR CX12E plays to Pal systems only, and going by the specs of the CX11E Wow! It cant play to NTSC TVs and or systems much the same as the Sony HDR CX12E, which to me - Indicates your Camcorder is a Pal Camcorder, and whats more it records with Dolby digital 5.1 sound you lucky so n so..

    Cheers,

    Pete..
    May the Universe return a hundred
    fold what you charge unto others

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