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Thread: How to best render AVI video, compression? (Vegas Mov. Stud. 9.0)

  1. #1

    Default How to best render AVI video, compression? (Vegas Mov. Stud. 9.0)

    This is kind of a follow-up thread from my last one about having a windowboxing issue on my rendered footage as WMV.

    Thanks to all the help I've got I've figured out that the answer is to render as AVI, square pixel res (768x576) and stretch to fill output size.

    That looks fine on a DV-AVI render however I want the file to be downloadable and manageable for the viewer, and decent to put on youtube.

    So I need to compress it. I've no idea about this sort of thing so please could I have some advice?

    Here is a screenshot of the available options: http://www.plankfilms.com/Parkour/NewVideoHelp/6.JPG

    The Intel Indeo (lowest 2 on the list), PAL DV, H.261 and H.263 ones say they don't support the video settings when I try to render with them.

    Cinepak by Radius works ok but I need to have the quality scaled really high to avoid pixelation / bad quality and the file size then becomes really big and overall it doesn't seem as efficient as I thought compression should be.

    Do I need to download a new one like DivX or something? I'd like this video to work on the average machine without them downloading a codec to watch if possible. Full vid will be about 4 / 5 mins, I'm hoping to have the size under 150 mb and keep the quality as close to the original as possible.

    Thanks,

    Charlie

    Edit: P.S. I just remembered it was suggested by someone that I render an uncompressed DV-AVI of the full edited video and then convert that separately. If that is a good way to go, how would I do that exactly?
    Last edited by CharlieB; 06-23-2009 at 05:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieB View Post

    Edit: P.S. I just remembered it was suggested by someone that I render an uncompressed DV-AVI of the full edited video and then convert that separately. If that is a good way to go, how would I do that exactly?
    Not UNCOMPRESSED, just DV-AVI (which IS compressed but not nearly as highly compressed as MPEG etc)
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieB View Post
    Thanks to all the help I've got I've figured out that the answer is to render as AVI, square pixel res (768x576) and stretch to fill output size.
    Charlie, there's still something wrong here. If your original footage was 4:3 Standard Def PAL, then you should be rendering to avi using the PAL DV template (which is NOT square pixels)
    If you were to do this with no editing at all your output file should be exactly the same as your captured file.
    Could you possibly try doing exactly that:
    Capture a file
    Import it into Vegas
    Render it as AVI (DVD PAL)
    Play both in a media player of your choice and see if there's any difference. and report back.
    Tim

  4. #4

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    Hi Tim. I did what you said and it worked, same aspect ratio and all.
    I'm starting to get the impression you are a bit of an expert! I'm really thankful to have you helping me out with this.

    What shall I do next Tim, on my journey towards a final render?

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    Flattery will get you everywhere but I can assure you I'm no expert.

    All I described above (and what you've done) is the standard, normal - even "default" way of doing it. It's difficult to know where you strayed from the path and introduced unnecessary complexities.

    But I'm delighted you can now produce a decent avi.

    I would now create a new project and import the avi you've just created (you could work from the same project, it's just the way I prefer)

    Now render as Windows Media Video (wmv)

    Constant Bit Rate (CBR)
    Bit Rate 3Mbps

    I'd suggest for starters you use Keep Original Size. I've been using one of the "High Def" settings, but this is to get the "HD" setting on YouTube. Most importantly, I can do that as my footage is all widescreen - I'm not sure whether it will pillar box yours (desired in this case) or stretch it.

    It will certainly produce a file which is small enough and should be visible on all PCs without the need for anyone to download stuff.
    Tim

  6. #6

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    Hi Tim, I did the WMV render of the new AVI file as you described. Unfortunately its windowboxed and the file properties say its 5:4 ratio. So the same issue as before.

    Seems to be something with WMV, I don't know.

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    If I do as I instructed I too get 5:4 aspect ratio and letterboxing (NOT letterbox + pillar box - are you sure you're getting pillarboxing as well - if in doubt import it into Vegas to check)

    So, my fault. I missed a key point. As you correctly identified earlier - wmv can only have square or 1:1.33 pixels. Keep it a square, but on the Render As window, check the "Stretch to fill output frame" box.

    However, you are quite right - the resultant file is 5:4 (but without letterboxing)

    I'll need to investigate further. I'll get back.
    Tim

  8. #8

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    Hiya Tim, yes you are right as well its just letterboxing in fullscreen. It has always been like that for me. But in the non-fullscreen mode in WMP it is windowboxed. Might just be something to do with my player.

    Thanks for investigating I look forward to finding a solution. I can feel it coming!

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    Smile Probably contains the answer!

    OK. I'm getting there. See BOLD for quick answer)

    The 5:4 aspect ratio is the ratio of the number of pixels. 720:576 = 5:4.

    So, when we "keep original size" AND use square pixels (without "stretch to fill") the image we produce is 720 x 576 SQUARE pixels. This image has a black band top & bottom (letterboxing) so that the visible image is the correct aspect ration (4:3)

    If we do the same but "stretch video ...do not letterbox" then everything is stretched vertically. Not what we want.

    We cannot specify that we want the pixels to have the same aspect ratio that they do in DV-AVI (1.066666:1) but we can and should specify the output size.

    Choose 640x480 and away you go.
    (My V9Pro has a built-in template "3Mbps Video" which does the job)

    Now in actual fact, if you don't choose "stretch to fil..." there will STILL be a slight letterbox effect. I cannot figure this as 720 x 576 multiplied by the Pixel Aspect Ratio of 1.067:1 actually does work out at 4:3 (or 640:480)

    My best guess at the moment is that although the real PAR is 1.066:1 some sort of standards use 1.09 or 1.0925:1 which I think relates to 704 x 576!

    Pixel aspect ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    but this is way over my head and we're close enough.

    Also, if you're doing this for the web, you should really deinterlace or any fast movement will show up as "combing". In project properties select a de-interlace method of interpolate or blur (whichever looks best).
    Tim

  10. #10

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    Wow, thanks so much.
    Will 640x480 allow a high-quality mode on youtube? Should I render the video straight to a WMV 640x480 fresh from the edit, or render the edit as a PAL-DV video, and re-render that as WMV?

    It is admirable that you would put so much thought and brain-power into solving a problem that isn't yours like this. I have serious respect for that.

    Talk to you when you reply!

    Edit: Oh and what about 800x600? Would that deliver the goods but with a nicer quality?
    Last edited by CharlieB; 06-25-2009 at 12:03 AM.

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