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Thread: New cameras?

  1. #1
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    Default New cameras?

    Hi All, I am new to this forum, but I would like to know any thoughts on what video cameras people are using for weddings.

    For the last couple of years I have been using two XL1s and a XM2 on my shoots.

    I have found these cameras to be good in the low light shooting enviroments we come across, but not the best.

    We are looking around for some new upgrades to these cameras, any thoughts?

    We may not be ready for the HD plunge, I am yet to be convinced with the low light preformance of the HD cameras I have tried. Also the CMOS rolling shutter issues is a concern of mine.
    Last edited by Aaron Rose; 02-20-2009 at 06:18 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes
    You only get one chance to get it right!

  2. #2
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    My mate has a ex1 - he says you have to look really hard to ever notice the rolling shutter thing.

    Also - on another thread Guru pointed out that some of the best cameras in the world are single cmos - like - RED / Index so it cant really be an issue.

  3. #3
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    In my line of work, any errors generated by the camera need to be avoided at all cost. You may never get another chance to capture, that special shot again.

    Having a camera that may create these errors whilst panning or tilting, is totalally unexceptable. I have red in another forum that even the RED cameras have these errors, due to the CMOS chip.

    Also I am loathed to jump in for HD at the moment, as i am unable to recoupe the extra costs from my clients, who are unwilling to pay extra for HD delivery.

    This leaves me wanting a good XLR equiped native 16:9 SD camera, that is not to unweildy handheld like the XL2.
    You only get one chance to get it right!

  4. #4
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    most hd cameras have an sd option built in so you can choose what video format you want

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Rose View Post
    In my line of work, any errors generated by the camera need to be avoided at all cost. You may never get another chance to capture, that special shot again.

    Also I am loathed to jump in for HD at the moment, as i am unable to recoupe the extra costs from my clients, who are unwilling to pay extra for HD delivery.
    I'm assuming you're a wedding videographer based on your other thread. Correct me if I'm wrong. Given that weddings aren't typically high intensity or impact, it's likely you'll be panning at low speed. I would also suggest that your clients would be nowhere near as quality sensitive as you. I certainly wouldn't suggest that your concerns would be shared by your clients.

    I would suggest that investing in new SD equipment would not be cost effective. Although those cameras are knocking on a bit, they're top notch cameras and DV really didn't get much better in terms of quality. Again, given that clients are not typically as sensitive to quality as us, it's unlikely that this will give you any benefit. However, at some stage it;s likely you will need HD equipment. Although clients are unlikely not to notice the difference, they will start to expect it... and at no extra cost. I would suggets that you put any money into that investment.

  6. #6
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    Hi yes you are correct, in this guise I am a wedding videographer, based in liverpool, serving the North West area. In other guises I am, the visual new media artist, but thats a different story.

    I agree that fast panning is not a normal wedding video movement. But we do tilts, and the CMOS artifacts due to the rolling shutter are visable when doing this.

    Also flash photography and fast movments generate visable errors.

    This leaves me wanting a CCD based 16:9 SD camera thats small enough for handheld, but big enough to look pro. Bit like a PD170 but 16:9.

    The preformance of HD cameras working in SD is just not good enough, as they lag behind even a dixons special camera.

    If the transition from SD to HD delivery take as long as the transition to full 16:9 broadcst transmissions, we will be in for a very long wait. None of my clients as yet have asked me for a HD production, and I have shot 30+ weddings for the last 3 years.

    HD delivery is the future.... but it may take some time for it to be accepted, or wanted by the masses.

    So to recap, i Need a PD170 like camera that is native 16:9 SD with good low light preformance. Any ideas?
    You only get one chance to get it right!

  7. #7
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    I am a die hard DV fan. BUT

    If you can afford a new camera it is idiotic not to buy a HD capable camera even if you want to shoot in DV.

    The few HDV cameras i have hefted have produced excellent results in DV mode - whoever told you otherwise is more DV dogmatic than me. I have SD DV video shot on a canon H1 and it is the equal in all respects of video shot on my JVC 5001 pro DV.

    Some early HDV cameras struggled without gain in a average sized room with a single light bulb - but things are better now in newer models and you didnt say you did pagan weddings so quelle problemo?

    Multimillion budget films have been are are being shot on the red...

    EX1s are running out the door to wedding vidders, and the BBC...

    This rolling shutter terror has been exaggerated and demonised by talk board nerdiness - men in darkened rooms with a dixons hi 8 camera at thier side obsessing about things they cant afford and dont really unhderstnd - lols.

    It freaked me a bit untill I asked a professional cameraman about it and he dismissed it as nothing.

    And also considor this - is sd DV perfect? No - aplly the same criteria to DV and look at the list...

    Moire - jaggies - jiggies - dot creep - noise - poor chroma res - bright edges... far less of an issue in HD or HDV and tbh the rolling shutter thing becomes vanishingly irrelevant - doesnt it ?

    A good DV SD camera is better than a not so good HDV camera but a good DV camera will rinse a good HDV camera.

    I stick with DV cos I love big pro cameras - mine was 1600 like new with 100 hours - the performance for me and as good as any 1000 hdv camera if used within it's capabilities. If I had the cash I would bin it in a flash for a shoulder mount HD canera - but i dont have 12,000 .
    Last edited by Mark W; 02-21-2009 at 02:01 AM.

  8. #8
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    No professional videographer, dealing with the public, should be looking at an SD camcorder.

    Already clients are asking for "blueray" discs and hdv is now the de facto standard for weddings. If you're looking for a PD 170 tpe camcorder I would go for an hdv and downconvert in post. You'll find the quality far superior to that of a pd170 or any SD prosumer camcorder.

  9. #9
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    I agree that HDV is the future, but to date I have only once been asked about shooting in HD by a bride.

    HDV is not the standard format used by the majority of wedding video producers in the Merseyside area. It may be soon, but definatly is not yet!

    As we use 3 cameras for every wedding, upgrading to HDV would incure some considrable investment on our part. Which in the current economic climate is just not a viable option.

    Over the past 5 years we have been filiming up to 25 weddings a year.

    But bookings this year, and for the next are down some what, even with a sizable discount being offerd.

    Maybe we will stick with what we have until things look up a little.

    Thanks for your comments.
    You only get one chance to get it right!

  10. #10
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    I dont often do paid work - but I have been asked once if my camera was ' HD ' - I lust lied.

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