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Thread: Nesting Projects without generating massive sfap0 files (Sony Vegas (Pro))

  1. #1

    Exclamation Nesting Projects without generating massive sfap0 files (Sony Vegas (Pro))

    I know sfap0 = Sonic Foundry Audio Proxy. I don't know why Vegas needs to make them to nest projects.

    Most importantly, I don't know if I can prevent Vegas from generating those massive sfap0 files when I want to nest projects.

    (> 1 GB per hour, whether using full resolution or low res video files, with just the basic one audio+video pair of tracks!)

    (I have (gulp) 60 projects I want (need) to nest into one project.)

    (To help others find this thread, I'll add "sfapO" with an O instead of a zero.)
    Last edited by Jilligan; 01-21-2009 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Windows Movie Maker was displayed under my post title, as if I'm using WMM, despite my specifying Vegas Pro in my specs.)

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Can you expalin more - I have no idea what you are asking.... I have used v for 7 years but this has me stupmed.

  3. #3

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    Vegas can nest projects - you can include Vegas projects inside Vegas projects.
    BUT: for each project you add into your project, a sfap0 file is created, >1GB per hour of footage. And it takes something like 1/2 hour to produce even on my fast computer.

    1. Why does Vegas make these flippin' files?
    2. Can I stop Vegas from generating these sfap0 files?
    3. Can I set Vegas to make 'low-res' sfap0 files?
    - 4 GB RAM
    - Intel duo core processor, 2.16 gHz EACH, 4.3 gHz total
    - Vista 64-bit (32-bit able)
    - Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS
    - Sound Card: RealTek High Definition Audio, 6.0.1.5384
    - Camera: Sony DSR-PD170. Also: Kodak m1033 digital.
    - Vegas Pro 8.0b

  4. #4

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    Nested veggies purpose are 2-fold:

    1] So I can see what a Veg looks like in a Project without the need to render it out and importing it

    . . and . .

    2] To be able to access this underlying Veg for further editing

    You get this when you import a VEG directly into a top level Veg. And THAT is what you are telling Vegas to do and THAT is why you get the Proxy formed. If you didn't create the Preview-able Proxy you wouldn't get anything to view.

    Now, I have too ask why you are importing 60 Vegas projects into a top level Veg? Yes, it IS doable but what you are doing is making a decision along the lines of saying/thinking that you will be wanting to re-edit those 60 projects while IN this top level Veg? Really? You really want to do this? I'd be asking myself just what I would be gaining. Nesting is a great feature. It gives me the opportunity to view veggies that can contain compositing; they might contain OLD text that I need to update; I want to inter-composite unmixed video . . and so on . .

    But 60 unrendered Projects? Convince me?

    A Nested Veg using the right click and re-edit is great. I would suggest that 60 is time to rethink what I would be gaining, and more to the point just how MUCH re-edit of those sub-veggies am I really wanting to re-edit. Of course I COULD re-edit in a separate Veg.

  5. #5
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    Well - thats a new one me - I shall go nest now...

  6. #6

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    Vegas now treats VEGGIES as straight forward Media.

    Find a Veg > Pull it straight onto the timeline > you have a proxy rendered file in the background allowing you to view in real time.

    You can add Fxs to this Veg; Edit its length; use it as part of a Child/Parent compositing combo . . in fact everything you do to a Media Event you can do to a Nested veg. PLUS right click on it and it will allow you to open it up in a separate Vegas instance to edit it, and on saving to get returned to the top level Veg with this nest being updated.

    A very valuable feature indeed.

  7. #7

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    Muchas gracias Grazie: a proxy file - that makes some sense.

    I'm trying to nest 60 projects because:
    I'm trying to get clips from 60 tapes into one file, and despite:
    (a) having 4 GB RAM and an Intel duo core processor, 2.16 gHz EACH
    (b) doing what thousands have done before - making a documentary
    (c) inventing more workarounds than MacGyver could imagine,
    every route I take comes to a dead end.

    We began with one project file containing all 60 videos, but after running the 'Regions to Subclips' script on the first 3 tapes without problem, beyond that Vegas crashed due to [low memory].

    So instead I tried processing each tape (selecting clips) in its own project file, intending to then copy the subclips from those files to a 'mothership'-project. But: when you copy subclips between projects, the subclip names are lost.

    I have a workaround for that:
    1. Copy bin of subclips from Project A to Project B.
    2. In Project B (the "mothership"), run script "export to xml"
    3. In Project A, run script "Regions to Subtitles"
    4. View 'Edit Details' => Commands, select all (click top-left corner), copy
    5. Open Spreadsheet. Paste.
    6. Open xml file with a text editor. Copy and paste into the Spreadsheet.
    7. Replace each misnamed subclip with the proper subclip name.
    *. I tried to automate that - but I can't get the matching subclips to find each other.
    8. Copy the modified XML from the spreadsheet to a text or xml editor.
    9. In a new Vegas window, run script "Import from XML".

    (I arrived at that after trying simpler methods that did not work.)
    (I wish Vegas had a mass-rename function for subclips. Or better yet, I wish you could copy subclips between projects with their names intact. And I wish I knew if there's a reason Sony can't get that to work.)

    (In previous posts on another forum I wrote that we have 250 subclips. I now found that my colleague has more like 900 subclips (a brief moment of a visual for a voiceover; a brief moment of audio for a voiceover; etc., etc.), totalling 17 hours, of which we will use ~95 minutes.)

    (I also tried nesting veg files before copying the subclip bin, hoping the subclips would then retain their names.)
    ----------------
    Even if I become able to 'copy-in' subclips with their names intact,
    I have found that copying bins of subclips from one project to a 'full' project creates the same [low memory] error that began my troubles. (Since I'm able to run the 'Regions to Subclips' script in one Vegas instance/window, while having my mothership project open in another window, along with 40 other applications if I desire (I tested that), I had thought the original crash occurred due to running the script in a 'large' project, so I should run the script in a small project then copy the bin between projects.)
    ----------------

    When subclips proved troublesome, I tried:
    Batch Render Regions.
    But:
    Timecodes are lost
    So:
    If I work with low res 'intermediate' files, I can't later switch to the full resolution source files.

    I imagined a work-around for that:
    1. Run script "Export to xml"
    2. Run script "Regions to Subtitles" (in the same project)
    3. View 'Edit Details' => Commands, select all (click top-left corner), copy
    4. Open Spreadsheet. Paste.
    5. Open xml file with a text editor. Copy and paste into the Spreadsheet.
    6. Replace each rendered regions' timecode in and out with the subclip's timecodes, plus set the source video file to the subclips' source file.
    *. I don't know how to automate the matching of each subclip to its corresponding rendered region file.
    7. Copy the modified XML from the spreadsheet to a text or xml editor.
    8. In a new Vegas window, run script "Import from XML".

    (Can someone create a script for that?)
    ------------------

    (I would prefer to work with rendered regions than subclips, because I can use the Sony Media Manager with rendered files, but it doesn't work with subclips.)

    ------------------
    So why did I want to nest 60 projects? I thought, incorrectly I now realize, that the regions (and possibly subclips) in the subprojects would be accessible in the "mothership"/"nest" project.

    Yes, nesting is useful, as Grazie points out, but I think Sony ought to say Vegas can "nest proxies" or "nest proxies of projects", not "nest projects" - unless the manual clarifies.

    ------------------

    Can we nest projects without proxies? (with events and regions and markers - perhaps also with subclips and multiple tracks)

    Grazie, you wrote that nesting veggies enables including a project "without the need to render it out and import it". Nesting turns that two-step process into one, and may be slightly faster, but still does something like rendering-and-importing. Now I understand why nesting projects takes ages, but if the project being imported is simple, I don't need a preview/rendering - I don't need a proxy, so surely Vegas ought to enable nesting without proxies - that would be INSTANTANEOUS.

    ------------------

    I have not included some methods I tried.
    ------------------

    I have written on another forum more about "Project 'full'?" and other memory issues. I will update my posts and post them on this forum.
    - 4 GB RAM
    - Intel duo core processor, 2.16 gHz EACH, 4.3 gHz total
    - Vista 64-bit (32-bit able)
    - Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS
    - Sound Card: RealTek High Definition Audio, 6.0.1.5384
    - Camera: Sony DSR-PD170. Also: Kodak m1033 digital.
    - Vegas Pro 8.0b

  8. #8

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    Should I post my epic above as a new topic? What would you call it? "101 failed solutions". Yes, I suppose that might be a useful title. I had been stuck trying to get all the specific issues into the title.
    - 4 GB RAM
    - Intel duo core processor, 2.16 gHz EACH, 4.3 gHz total
    - Vista 64-bit (32-bit able)
    - Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS
    - Sound Card: RealTek High Definition Audio, 6.0.1.5384
    - Camera: Sony DSR-PD170. Also: Kodak m1033 digital.
    - Vegas Pro 8.0b

  9. #9

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    Better title: "Workflow? 101 failed solutions."
    - 4 GB RAM
    - Intel duo core processor, 2.16 gHz EACH, 4.3 gHz total
    - Vista 64-bit (32-bit able)
    - Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS
    - Sound Card: RealTek High Definition Audio, 6.0.1.5384
    - Camera: Sony DSR-PD170. Also: Kodak m1033 digital.
    - Vegas Pro 8.0b

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jilligan View Post
    Can we nest projects without proxies?"without the need to render it out and import it". Nesting turns that two-step process into one, and may be slightly faster, but still does something like rendering-and-importing. Now I understand why nesting projects takes ages, but if the project being imported is simple, I don't need a preview/rendering - I don't need a proxy, so surely Vegas ought to enable nesting without proxies - that would be INSTANTANEOUS.
    YES it renders a PROXY. NO you wont see a Nest unless it renders the same PROXY.

    To make all this blatantly clear, the rendering I was referring to was either a Render to New Track ( non-volatile) or Render to a File ( non-volatile) or Pre-Rendering ( partially volatile) or even Build RAM Previews (volatile). I don't think I have left anything out? Now, ALL of these produce a need to perform a render. If you are asking to have the same Previewing that you would if you were simply Previewing that Sub-Veg, then that is NOT what NESTING does. NESTING has to produce the PROXY. Without it, no previewing - period. If you are asking for a method to Preview WITHOUT creating a PROXY, then please take this up directly with SONY. If you get an answer I too would like to know.

    As to the body of your project, just the sheer scale and complexity is something I have never done.

    My method of working is to shoot my own work; grade/audition it in Vegas; edit it using many veggies and invoke Nesting to reduce complexity and preview aggregated veggies; reduce and distill my work till it finally reduces to one BIG video and from here produce several delivery formats that I or the client wants. What you are describing is well out of my scope or experience. However, and until I or you have further information, currently if you NEST a Veg then a PROXY will be formed to allow for that all important Preview. I am intrigued to hear from you just how one WOULD preview a nested veg in real-time without creating that all important PROXY? Yes?

    Now to the real what I feel ios the crux of your enquiry and what I understand could be the stumbling block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jilligan View Post
    . . but if the project being imported is simple, I don't need a preview/rendering - I don't need a proxy, so surely Vegas ought to enable nesting without proxies - that would be INSTANTANEOUS.
    Why? And just what is "simple" - what makes a project simple anyway? How would this change the underlying NESTING process? At what level of simplicity/complexity would you advise Vegas to make the PROXY needed or NOT? Who or How is this decided? Just because you don't need it being created, and even if it COULD be accomplished, at what level of complexity would PROXY formation be created? Do answer that one?

    At all levels of availability, Nesting is focussed on providing a Preview. How would Vegas NOT do this? I am intrigued to know why you think that this should not be the case?

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