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Thread: Icewhole

  1. #1

    Default Icewhole

    I have several of my films on a website called icewhole.com: Homepage. They have recently contacted me about my film Tentboy (see it in the user video section) saying they would like to have rights to screen it around the world and any commercial oppertunities that may arise from it in which I would be paid a percentage. If I signed I would need their permission to send it to festivals (permission for my own film!).

    They would also want it removed from Youtube (which is a big problem). The film was never made as a money making oppertunity and I also never sign anything with out doing research.

    I don't think I will be going ahead with this but I was wondering if anybody else had any experience with the said website or been in a simlar position with them?

    Thanks,

    Jim.
    Driftwood - Available on iTunes - www.driftwoodfilm.co.uk

    Follow me on twitter - @DirectorJWebber

  2. #2
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    First off congrats that your excellent film has got noticed.
    Now who are this Icewhole lot....

    From - British Film Magazine :: ICEWHOLE.COM/LOVES ORANGE

    " Icewhole.com, a lively forum for new filmmakers to showcase their work online, meet like minds and maybe become rich and famous for free. "

    " Now these two are a couple and every month Orange will also comb Icewhole.com�s huge online catalogue for the some great short films which will be made available exclusively on the Orange mobile network."

    It appears they are needing films for the orange tie up. They do pay contributors. I would check how much.

    If I were you I would be torn. I would hate to give my rights away in perpituity, and the you tube thing sucks but they do appear to be a cosher site from the magazine article and you might get a very few quid out of it - I would be very suprised if it is more than pin money.

    There again if it is that good, your film, then maybe that is precisely why you should keep the rights.....

  3. #3

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    Thanks for the response Mark. I am a bit torn as there is no clear answer. There is a 'get out' clause in the contract which both parties can use (with 90 days notice of course) which makes me feel a little better about things. The money percentages are pretty crap to tell you the truth but I guess it could give me a good bit of exposure??! Hmmm... I think I will have to ponder it for a few more days!
    Driftwood - Available on iTunes - www.driftwoodfilm.co.uk

    Follow me on twitter - @DirectorJWebber

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    Sent this to Icewhole.
    Sites like this are sprining up - it may be useful to us all to hear what they say....
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Hi, I am an enthusiastic film maker and a moderator and contributor to a film makers forum on ' digital director '.
    One of our contributors has been contacted by icewhole with a request that they allow you to screen thier film - in exchange for all rights. This is a lot to ask and people are understandably suspicious.

    I was wondering if you can explin to our members what the aims of your site are? Who prfoits from this arrangement? Do contributors loose all control of thier work in perpituity? How is icewhole funded and how does it gather revenue? How do contributors benefit ?
    Forgive my cynicism but demanding all rights seems a bit heavy.
    I shall be posting your reply on the forum for the benefit of our contributors.

    Mark.
    ______________________________________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark W View Post
    Sent this to Icewhole....
    Excellent work, Mark. Asking the question openly and publicly, gives Icehole the opportunity or respond publicly and openly, which I hope they will do. And if they don't, well, we all know what Fingercuff should do, dont we?
    Tim

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    Response to above.....
    __________________________________________________ ___

    Hi Mark

    Thank you for your email which we read with interest. There seems to be a misunderstanding about how our website operates which is in a clear and ethical way and why we can have such esteemed professionals as members of our panel judging the films of aspiring film makers every month.

    Our website is and always has been free to use with no exceptions to this rule. We provide an opportunity to showcase any serious film maker's work - they load up their film and can remove it whenever they wish. It is important to stress that the film maker always retains complete control of their copyright and our Agreement with the film makes this fact abundantly clear. This is the case with your own contributor.

    We also operate a free monthly competition which film makers can elect to enter or not - we give away $3000 every month in the UK alone and since we started have awarded many thousands by way of prize money.

    Last month we hosted our first Quarterly Awards at the Everyman Cinema, screened the best films to an appreciative audience of industry luminaries and Icewhole.com film makers and gave away a number of awards sponsored by Kodak. Pinewood Studios and Total Film. Please feel free to check the site for a short film of the evening.

    The aim of our site also helps film makers, actors and composers from around the world to network with each other while also offers the opportunity for film maker to access and freely download original music from composers wanting their music used in short movies - building relationships for the future.

    On the subject of rights, we run a boutique sales distribution agency and invite certain talented film makers i.e - in the case of your contributor - to see if they would like us to help sell and promote their film beyond it's free run on our website. We email them first with this request . If they reply that they are interested we then follow up with a personal phone call explaining what our intentions are and how we hope to make the film maker and ourselves royalties. We then send them a contract that details what they will receive from the marketing of the film in all the known platforms and territories. - we never deviate from this process to ensure that there is no pressure on any film maker to work with us.

    You raise the question of the film maker losing control of their work in perpetuity. To clarify that misconception please be aware that the Distribution Agreement is exclusive for an initial term of five years and rolls over upon 90 days Notice to Terminate on either side which is common practice with many sales entities. This period allows us an acceptable period of time to market the movies especially when one is investing our own money in advance, preparing those films for certification, marketing and funding the post production costs involved to get them into a TV broadcast acceptable length and language and we are sure you are aware, that historically, short films are not a quick sale with any international broadcaster. This excludes work that we have to do to put them into other formats such as Theatrical and so forth.

    On the matter of Festivals, our Agreement with the film maker states specifically "the film maker reserves his right to exhibit at festivals and we welcome and encourage such exhibitions by them". All we ask is that we be informed whenever a film we are readying for international distribution is entered into festivals, so we can help promote the films reputation with any international buyers in that region.

    We advise removing the film from a "youtube" if the film makers intention is for their film to have a future "royalty earning life". As you can imagine there are possibilities for television exposure for any good films and there are definite opportunities for our film makers to be seen through this medium (and others) that will not only earn them exposure, potential royalties but also look good on the CV! Naturally, if television broadcast or wider exposure is not of interest to the film maker then, in this event, there is no necessity for the film maker to go forward. This works in our favour too, as we wouldn't be spending our resources and energy trying to get a film maker commercial exposure. We are very keen to support new talent and provide their films with a life that perhaps it may not get elsewhere.

    Please check out the site for yourself and we welcome your comments and thoughts.

    Sincerely

    Laura

    On behalf of the Icewhole Team.

  7. #7

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    Thanks for that Mark. I have spoken to Laura on the phone and discussed my concerns and she seemed very honest about the deal. Luckily the main investor in my production company has a strong legal team who looked over their contract and found nothing sinister, especially as there is a get out clause. So it looks like it may be something I should consider. It has about 800 views on youtube so I guess thats not too much of a loss (obviously only after the VOM competition is over!).
    Driftwood - Available on iTunes - www.driftwoodfilm.co.uk

    Follow me on twitter - @DirectorJWebber

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    Yea - I would go for it after the above.

  9. #9

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    Cheers Mark. I appreciate you contacting them.
    Driftwood - Available on iTunes - www.driftwoodfilm.co.uk

    Follow me on twitter - @DirectorJWebber

  10. #10
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    I'm not convinced.

    Given the economic climate, I'm surprised that such companies are finding the available funding for such enterprises. It's also notable that there's been a plethora of such websites pimping themselves here.

    I can't comment on this company, but this business model to me is confused. They appear to want the quick buck associated with building a library of short films. What I would have thought would be more lucrative would be investing in talent for the future. It says more about the 'right here, right now' culture than anythings else. It's about optimising current income without regard for the future.

    This has perhaps turned into a rant more than advice, but wouldn't it be good if the money was spent on nurturing talent rather than giving away spot prizes?

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