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Thread: My Next Attempt

  1. #1

    Default My Next Attempt

    Hi All,

    A while ago I posted a clip from one of my first weddings and I got some excellent (and constructive) feedback on what I could be doing to make things a bit better. All taken on board but at the end of the day, if the B&G want a certain style or look, they're the ones who are paying...

    Anyway, I've put a new clip up and I'd love to get a bit of feedback about it. I'm still a little on the doubting side about my abilities but the B&G are over the moon with the whole film so i guess that is the main thing.

    Two things I am already aware of - I know the clip looks dark in places - it's fine on the finished film so i think i am going to have to lighten parts of it, re-encode and repost it. And I was limited as to where I could shoot in the church itself due to one entire side being covered in scaffolding. Not ideal...

    I look forward to your thoughts!

    Wedding Video in Berkshire, Hampshire, Oxfordshire - The Reel Big Production Company - click on the examples tag...

    Ta!

    Stef

  2. #2

    Default

    Hi Bakesys

    I just watched the first minute and am rushing out but will give a quick reply now and hopefully more detailed later when I have time to view it all.

    The first thing I noticed was major issues with auto exposure. You need to go manual exposure asap!

    Back soon.

    cheers.
    GDR

  3. #3
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    I watched your 5 min wedding video and thought it was good. There were a few technical points that I wanted to bring up and as GDR said you need to watch the exposure, set it to manual if possible as relying on auto is too big of a gamble. Also the music goes up and down abruptly, you need to time the transition between one audio track and another much better using longer fade ins and fade outs.

    The bride was a bit difficult to hear, some shots were indecisive in so far as they had no subject to focus on. And you need to cut down on the amount of zooming in and out. I know it's difficult getting every shot you want especially in a small church or if you've been told to stay in one spot and not move from it. But if it is possible to move or bring along a second camera operator then get medium close ups and close ups of mum and dad, granny and granda and any relatives who are elderly or have travelled long distances rather than side profiles and b.o.h. shots (backs of heads).
    Last edited by Nikosony; 06-27-2008 at 08:45 PM.

  4. #4
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    As this is a film makers place and you are asking for feedback for professional work I will be very critical.

    Shot compositon - insecure and wobbly. Each shot needs to be more deliberate. In many the pans are wondering, think one direction only as a rule. Zooming - must be slow and steady and in one direction only.

    Technical camera stuff - Auto exposure is rubbish - only use it when you must, like when moving from light to dark. Much is underexposed cos the camera tends to set for the brightest object (the windows) leaving the action too dark. Sure, can be fixed in the editor but even with all but pro cameras with thier greater exposure latitude this is risky - often screws colour balance and adds noise.

    Sound - Poor. Churches are sound hell and I aint the expert ( I would get struck by lightewning if i went into a church) but sounds like a camera mic to me. Camera mics rarely give useful results. You either need a gun mic close to the action or lav radio mics on the speakers.

    Editing - Adequate but bland. See GDR's stuff for some things that can be used to 'weddingise' footage.

    Appreciate that I am being harsh here as you are charging for your work. Also I dont do weddings cos they are fraught with challenges both practical and technical that make them perhaps one of the most demanding income streams out there.

  5. #5
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    All wot Mark said plus...

    Is this a serious business? I must ask this as it will dictate an honest opinion. If you're just starting out then I would suggest that you put the business on "pause" and go and learn the basics of cameracraft. If it's a business charging money for wedding videos then you should be ashamed of charging for such poor camerawork. If it's just a hobby where you do mates' videos for nothing then it's not bad.

    The two cardinal sins of novice camera(wo)men are hosepiping and tromboning. Hosepiping is where you move the camera like you're watering the garden, moving from one thing to another, hoping to capture everything. Tromboning is when you zoom in and out, then zoom in, have a think, zoom in a bit more, still aren't happy so you zoom again. Both are inexcusable in a professional production, both are present, many times, in your clip.
    As for the auto-exposure...

    Like I said this is a critique of a so-called professional production which is the impression that I get from the website. If that's not the case and your website is hoping to catch clients and you've only done "freebies" so far, because you're thinking of starting out as a pro, I would suggest spending a lot more time learning your craft before charging people for your services.

    For "hobby" productions they're not bad. For professional productions it's bloody awful!

  6. #6
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    Now that I've taken the time to read through the text on your site I see you are professional and charging for your service. I suggest you remove that example clip as it's not showing your work at its best and use a better clip instead.

  7. #7

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    Thanks for the feedback. Not sure how much I'll learn from Guru's critique, but again there has been some great pointers.

    As i pointed out in my first post, I have only recently taken up doing wedding videography and have spent the last year doing free filming at freinds weddings with several under my belt now. This is some footage from wedding 2.

    I know that I still have a way to go which is why i came to the forum to seek some feedback. it's been taken on board and I'll post a new clip later in the year after I've done a few more.

    One thing I will say though - you are all professionals and you see a lot of these things as being really obvious. A client probably will not. I got paying referrals from the full video that the clip was from...

    Mark & Nikosony, thanks a lot for the advice and if you could do the same after my next wedding is edited and up, i would appreciate a reappraisal of my work.

    Stef

  8. #8
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    Being paid for a job means you represent a vast body of other film makers de facto. You should strive to provide a service that impresses even the non technical viewer. Also your product will be much more imressive and your business flourish.

    Some of our contributirs get paid for advice we share here for free, cos we love the art.

    Weddings are a very challenging thing to do well. And you will be well on that road if you heed all the advice - esp Guru's - there really is a clue in his name - and he didnt pay me to say that

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakesys View Post
    Not sure how much I'll learn from Guru's critique... you see a lot of these things as being really obvious. A client probably will not
    Quote Originally Posted by The Guru View Post
    The two cardinal sins of novice camera(wo)men are hosepiping and tromboning. Hosepiping is where you move the camera like you're watering the garden, moving from one thing to another, hoping to capture everything. Tromboning is when you zoom in and out, then zoom in, have a think, zoom in a bit more, still aren't happy so you zoom again. Both are inexcusable in a professional production, both are present, many times, in your clip.
    There's a lesson... for free.

    To say that the client won't notice your mistakes is insulting to the person paying for a service. True, the punter won't be able to say "the cameraman composed the picture with too much headroom" but he/she will say "the video wasn't good, but I don't know why."

    Another free lesson coming up... If you're selling yourself as a videographer, then you're supposed to be a craftsman, just like a decorator, plumber, mechanic or such. That means that the client pays you to do a job and expects it to be done "correctly". He may not be able to do the job himself but he'll know when it's not been done to a professional standard. If you're selling yourself as a professional then things like composition (in your example you cut people in half, chopped off heads, showed no knowledge of the "rule of thirds" and so on) should be second nature. These are basics.

    I'll encourage amateurs to persevere, no matter how "bad" they are but you are looking at getting money from clients.
    You're trying to be booked for a wedding, thereby depriving a proper professional of the job. If you're going to place yourself amongst professionals, you have to expect that your work will be viewed, and criticised, at this level. Put bluntly, your camerawork is not at a professional level. This is why I have no problem in being brutally honest. I'm not saying that you can't achieve this standard, not at all, I think you will make a good professional if you look harshly and critically at your own work. To say that the client won't notice it is cheating and cheap.

    Edit: I suggest you get in touch with the IOV (Institute of Videographers) who will show you what the standard of a wedding videographer should be. They also offer appraisals of video footage. It won't be free though!
    Last edited by Rembrandt Rob; 06-30-2008 at 07:07 PM.

  10. #10

    Default

    Sorry - looking at it, that may have come across as rude...

    I assure you, all the information and advice that has been given to me on this clip has been taken fully on board. I have one wedding to do for a freind in September (they are paying me, admittedly, but only costs+) and then the plan was to launch the business properly next year. So I now have a good 9 months in which to better my camera work.

    Nice to know that no-one had issues with my framing or focussing this time Seriously though, i wasn't expecting to get fluffy feedback from you guys. I said i doubted my ability and I wanted to hear what i was doing wrong. Now I know...

    I foresee a summer of practicing and learning ahead of me.

    Stef

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