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Thread: Help! Edges appearing when layering.

  1. #1

    Default Help! Edges appearing when layering.

    Hello! I'm having a problem...

    I'm using Sony Vegas 7.0a. I'm trying to blend different black and white drawings together to create animation; for example, I have a drawing of a head without a mouth, and then I have the mouth as a set of separate drawings (different mouth shapes).

    I thought it would be easy; create a "mouth layer" above the "head layer", put the mouth drawings in this layer, resize and move the mouth drawings so that they fit in the right position, and then set this "mouth layer" to MULTIPLY or DARKEN, just like in Photoshop, to blend the two.

    But boy was I wrong. When I resize the mouth drawings in MULTIPLY/DARKEN mode, BLACK EDGES appear around the image. They're not in the original image, and they don't exist when the image is in SOURCE ALPHA mode. They appear when I try to "blend" the two images. I don't know what to do to get rid of this "frame"! What am I doing wrong? What can I do to solve this problem?

    All help much appreciated! First time poster.


  2. #2


    Post an example of the result.


  3. #3


    Ok, sorry.

    Here's what I'm trying to achieve:

    ...and this is what happens in Vegas:

    Any suggestions...?


  4. #4


    Excellent! - Great to have samples to work with.

    OK, what I would do would be to give the T1 Event a transparent background. That would COMPLETELY remove any edge you are getting. Using P/C means you are floating a FRAME over another. The edging of that same frame is being "seen".

    So, try removing the compositing levels and just give the T1 Event a transparent BG. Done!

    Tell me, why DID you go down this compo route? Now I am interested . ..

    Last edited by Grazie; 04-11-2008 at 06:55 AM. Reason: spilling . .what else?

  5. #5


    Hello, thanks for the quick reply!

    Do you mean that instead of a white backround in the original images there should be an alpha channel of some sort?

    The reason for going with the multiply/darken compositing is that it's the simplest way I could think of how to achieve this... I want to create deliberately crude and naive animations (as I'm sure you can tell from my drawings) and I draw the elements with ink on paper, scanning them, and then saving the elements into different files. Since I can blend the elements perfectly in Photoshop I assumed it would work the same way in Vegas.

    I haven't really worked with alpha channels and transparency before, how do I convert the "white" in my scanned images to transparent channels? (Or, is there a way to create this transparency directly in Vegas without having to alter the source images?)

    Thanks again,

  6. #6


    OK . . this is interesting . .

    Sure, use:

    T1 for your OVERLAY graphic and set to Darken or Multiple Mask
    T2 leave as your BG.

    Now, instead of P/C try TRACK MOTION.

    See, I am not sure you aren't actually picking up a line of "carried-over" pixels from the EDGE of your graphic - yeah? In which case P/C is doing EXACTLY what it should. It IS showing us all the graphic media and you may well have some edge noise been attributed TO the Graphic that P/C - yeah?

    So, going back into the Graphic see if you have anything along the edge? This is why I do trannie PNGS - works for me.

    Anyways do try what you want to do, but this time try using T/M. I just repeated this with SONY Generated Media and I don;t have any frame edging appearing.

    Ah. . . so had a thought .. How about bezier masking around this graphic? This will wipe out any "edge"? Give that a go.



  7. #7


    Hi again,

    Thanks for your suggestions. Actually, I DID use Track Motion for resizing and positioning, not P/C. And as you can see in my first image there are no carried-over pixels in the original image, as evident in the (successful) blending of the two elements in Photoshop.

    Anyway I found a semi-satisfying solution: Using the Chroma Keyer plug on the Mouth track and setting the colour to white. Blends it and gets rid of any 'frame edges' but isn't quite as satisfying in detail blending as multiply/darken compositing...

    So "trannie PNGs", I suppose that means transparent PNGs, do you have any suggestions how I easily convert the white in my scans to a transparent layer? In Photoshop maybe?


  8. #8


    I saw the P/C icon illuminated, so I assumed that you HAD done it that way?

    Chroma Key was another solution, but I thought you wanted to keep on the Compo side of things .. I created Trannie PNGs in Paint Shop Pro. I don't use PS. Never needed it. I suspect you must be able to do this in PS?

    Bottom line here is that Vegas treats Media WHAT it gets. I normally prepare my graphics externally and THEN import. I believe you are thinking you can affect the media as you would in PS? Well, here's an analogy. If PS COULD import one of your AVIs or MPEGs, what would it do to a single frame? Yes?

    I keep my workflow logic and manipulation with stills, graphics separate from Vegas. But YES you can do masses with stills within Vegas: Colour Correction; Colour Curves; in fact ALL the Fx stuff. And yes Compositing too. But if it AINT got the Alpha, how would Vegas create/apply it? We CAN elect to trannie a colour - ChromaKey - but how would it create it? Interesting . . . And yes, if you DO supply a Graphic event WITH an alpha channel then Vegas WILL use it. Go Properties > Media and see the Alpha settings there.


  9. #9


    I'm not quite sure I follow you... but the bottom line for me is that it seems like Vegas always adds a small "frame" around the media that is on a Multiply/Darken track, but it's only visible when you resize that image and make it smaller so that the 'frame' is brought within the actual screen space. (Sorry btw. if my english is hard to follow, it's not my native tongue.)

    Here's another example, a screengrab from a video I recently rendered:

    I first rendered a "pure" black&white animation of that little fellow as an mpeg2, and then imported that rendered video into a project that has a scanned piece of paper as a background. I did the same presumption here -- thinking there would be no problem to 'superimpose' the video onto the paper background using Darken compositing, and it works fine until I resize the superimposed video to the smaller size I want: ta-da, there are the edges again. (By the way, the edges didn't show up on the Preview in Vegas, not until after rendering the video did I see them.) And just to clarify: the edges appear around a Vegas rendered video this time, not a still image.

    Am I really the only one having this problem? Or am I really the only one in the history of Vegas who's tried to superimpoze a downsized media using darken/multiply compositing?

    Oh well. I guess I can bypass this problem by using the Chroma Key shortcut, but I still think it's a bit weird that Vegas behaves like this, I can't see the reason for it. I tried the same thing on my friends After Effects 7 just now, and it worked like a charm, no edges.

    Anyway, thanks for your help and effort Grazie, I really appreciate it!


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by tulseluper74 View Post
    So "trannie PNGs", I suppose that means transparent PNGs, do you have any suggestions how I easily convert the white in my scans to a transparent layer? In Photoshop maybe?
    It's easy enough to convert those images to PNG files with an alpha channel in Photoshop.

    Use the magic wand to select the white and then erase it - you'll then get the chequerboard background indicating it's transparent. Use the "Save for Web" command from the File menu and select PNG-24. Ensure the "Transparency" checkbox is ticked (to save the alpha channel in the file), choose a filename and you'll be good to go.

    (your other issue is weird, I'm gonna try and have a play later on - bit pushed for time at the mo')

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