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Thread: SOny Vegas Pro 8: Problem with Pan/Crop Masking

  1. Default SOny Vegas Pro 8: Problem with Pan/Crop Masking

    Hi there,

    Now I encountered a very irritating problem in pan & crop. I was trying to follow the xample in the youtube tutorial where the eyes turn into red colour. To do that I need to be doing some rotoscoping.

    I need help on the following:

    (1) when I mask the shape of the eyes frame by frame, I sometimes need to edit. Say I got 10 points to form the shape of the eye. There are two different types of edit I need, (a) to move/adjust ONE out of the 10 points bcos maybe I need the eyes to be longer and (b) the shape is correct but it is out of phase so I need to just move all the 10 points simulateously to say the the left, ie move to the left while maintaining its shape.

    The thing is that after I clicked the edit tool, I move to the points and move it, sometimes it works like (a) [when I wanted to do (b)] and sometimes it works like (b) [when I wanted to do (a)]

    So, how do I make sure and change the editing format from (a) to (b) and vice-versa ?

    (2) Sometimes as I clicked to draw the shape of the eye, some doted lines appear across and I cannot close the shape. How do I switch off the tangent/curve feature ?

    Thanks again

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    Hi Ryan. I agree. These bezier masks are tricky little blighters - I have exactly the same trouble and haven't been able to figure out the "rules" (if there are any) as to when it will behave like X and when it will behave like Y.

    A couple of things I use continually to help keep my sanity.

    1. I keep my left hand covering Ctrl-Z so that I can undo a split second after I realise the "wrong" bit has been moved.

    2. Right-Click on a node or segment, this gives you a number of useful options. I find if I want to move a single node, I right click, "Deselect All" then re-click on the node. Similarly, right-click and "Select All" should set you in good stead for moving the whole mask as one.

    Hope this helps and if any others have useful tips for working with Bezier masks, perhaps we could compile a list - even make a sticy?
    Tim

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TimStannard View Post
    Hi Ryan. I agree. These bezier masks are tricky little blighters - I have exactly the same trouble and haven't been able to figure out the "rules" (if there are any) as to when it will behave like X and when it will behave like Y.

    A couple of things I use continually to help keep my sanity.

    1. I keep my left hand covering Ctrl-Z so that I can undo a split second after I realise the "wrong" bit has been moved.

    2. Right-Click on a node or segment, this gives you a number of useful options. I find if I want to move a single node, I right click, "Deselect All" then re-click on the node. Similarly, right-click and "Select All" should set you in good stead for moving the whole mask as one.

    Hope this helps and if any others have useful tips for working with Bezier masks, perhaps we could compile a list - even make a sticy?
    Thanks Tim for your reply. I think the bezier masks are tricky for beginners like me, just like the ProType Titler it can get irritating.

    I tried your method in (2) and it works most of the time. Thanks. (So the trick is to right click so that an array of options are opened up and Ctrl-Z to undo it when it doesn't perform to expectation)

    But now I wanted to rotate the mask, how do I do it ? (There isn't a rotate option when I right click)

    Just a matter of interest, when you right click on the diamond icon at the bottom on the keyframe, there are options like Linear, Fast, Slow, Smmoth, Sharp & Hold. Do you happen to know what are they for ? I noticed in the Eye Tuotrial, it mentioned about selecting HOLD but it didn' explain what does HOLD do. Do you know ?

    Thanks

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_khoo View Post

    Just a matter of interest, when you right click on the diamond icon at the bottom on the keyframe, there are options like Linear, Fast, Slow, Smmoth, Sharp & Hold. Do you happen to know what are they for ? I noticed in the Eye Tuotrial, it mentioned about selecting HOLD but it didn' explain what does HOLD do. Do you know ?
    That setting affects how the frames between two keyframes are interpolated. This applies wherever keyframes are used - not just in bezier masks (this may be obvious to you but I thought I'd better make it clear).
    Basically it changes how you get from keyframe A to keyframe B.
    Linear means that all the intermediate frames are evenly spaced.
    Smooth means the effect is accellerated into and then slowed down again.
    Hold means a jump from one keyframe to the next.
    It's much easier to undertstand by making an example and playing with it.
    Try this:
    Make a generated text media lasting 5 seconds.
    Use event pan & Crop to move the text off the left hand side of the screen at time =0
    Create a keyframe at time = 5secs and have the text moved off the right hand side hand side.
    Play the clip and the text crawls across the screen
    Now play with the keframe settings (smooth, fast, slow etc) and see the effect. (Apply the setting to the first keyframe)

    As for your other question, I'm afraid I'm not aware of any way of rotating bezier masks. However you could achieve the same as follows:
    Make the track you want to mask (the eyes in your example) the child track of a track containing generated media pure white.
    Make the compositing mode of the parent track "Multiply (Mask)"
    Everything that is white in the parent track will allow it's child to show through - currently the whole screen.
    No the trick is to apply the bezier mask to the parent (white) track.
    You could now use track motion on the parent track to rotate the mask. This is only (so far) a half-baked solution as when I tried it the whole 19:6 frame (or 4:3) rotates and anything outside that rotating rectangle is no longer masked but it has potential if it saves a lot of time moving nodes on bezier masks.
    Tim

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TimStannard View Post
    That setting affects how the frames between two keyframes are interpolated. This applies wherever keyframes are used - not just in bezier masks (this may be obvious to you but I thought I'd better make it clear).
    Basically it changes how you get from keyframe A to keyframe B.
    Linear means that all the intermediate frames are evenly spaced.
    Smooth means the effect is accellerated into and then slowed down again.
    Hold means a jump from one keyframe to the next.
    It's much easier to undertstand by making an example and playing with it.
    Try this:
    Make a generated text media lasting 5 seconds.
    Use event pan & Crop to move the text off the left hand side of the screen at time =0
    Create a keyframe at time = 5secs and have the text moved off the right hand side hand side.
    Play the clip and the text crawls across the screen
    Now play with the keframe settings (smooth, fast, slow etc) and see the effect. (Apply the setting to the first keyframe)
    Perfect answer, Tim. Now I fully understand the options available. Wow, Vegas has so much depth !!

    Thanks


    As for your other question, I'm afraid I'm not aware of any way of rotating bezier masks. However you could achieve the same as follows:
    Make the track you want to mask (the eyes in your example) the child track of a track containing generated media pure white.
    Make the compositing mode of the parent track "Multiply (Mask)"
    Everything that is white in the parent track will allow it's child to show through - currently the whole screen.
    No the trick is to apply the bezier mask to the parent (white) track.
    You could now use track motion on the parent track to rotate the mask. This is only (so far) a half-baked solution as when I tried it the whole 19:6 frame (or 4:3) rotates and anything outside that rotating rectangle is no longer masked but it has potential if it saves a lot of time moving nodes on bezier masks.
    Thanks Tim for the suggestion but I am sorry I do not understand this Parent-Child concept let alone what does "white" and "mutliply" means.

    Does Parnts means whataver attributes, you fixed at Parents, that attributes remained constant in child ? Then what does multiply means ?

    Sorry if I sound irritating.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_khoo View Post
    Perfect answer, Tim. Now I fully understand the options available.
    Awww , shucks
    I've received so much help from enthusiasts here, I'm only glad to be able to put something back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_khoo View Post
    Wow, Vegas has so much depth !!

    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_khoo View Post

    Thanks Tim for the suggestion but I am sorry I do not understand this Parent-Child concept let alone what does "white" and "mutliply" means.

    Does Parnts means whataver attributes, you fixed at Parents, that attributes remained constant in child ? Then what does multiply means ?

    Sorry if I sound irritating.
    Not irritating at all. We all have to learn and asking about areas in which you are ignorant is one of the best ways. Anyway, I refer you to your previous comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_khoo View Post
    Wow, Vegas has so much depth !!
    If you haven't yet looked into parent/child compositing and compositing modes, you're going to discover Vegas has more depth than you've begun to comprehend. I've only scratched the surface and I find it totally gob-smacking. Fundamentally a track can be a parent of one or more other tracks. Attributes can be applied to the child tracks or parent tracks only OR to the parent track such that it applies to ALL it's children.
    One obvious application is where you have a number of child tracks that you want to move around the screen using track motion. Apply the track motion to the parent track and the others will all move in perfect unison.
    But it extends WAY beyond that.
    Compositing mode is the way in which one track interacts with another.
    This gives you a ridiculous number of possibilities.
    I can't begin to go into it here - my knowledge would fill pages and I understand virtually nothing about parent/child relationships and compositing modes.
    One guy round here who s pretty hot on this stuff is Grazie, but even he'd probably say he's only scratched the surface.
    I don't think you can simply "learn" these things from a book or by random experimentation - 99% appears to have no application whatsoever. I've learned what I know when I've had a specific thing I've wanted to try (or seen a post from someone else who's got a specific requirement that caught my eye) and then seen a tutorial/read responses about how to do it.
    For a taste of the parent/child thing try to follow Grazie's method here http://www.videoforums.co.uk/sony-ve...ts-screen.html
    At first it appears long winded - until you realise how much easier it makes the whole process once it's set up.
    Tim

  7. Default

    Thanks Tim for your detailed attempt to explain to me the parent-child concept.

    It seemed complicated to me and I think I will take some time to digest it. Wish me luck

    Cheers & thanks

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