My 18 rules of film making. - Page 3

Mark W · #21 (**permalink**) 03-21-2008, 12:20 PM

'less is more' is sometihng I struggle wiith - good point.

stuart62 · #22 (**permalink**) 03-23-2008, 12:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Mark W

1.Don't use a HDV camera, and if you do shoot everything in DV, unless your camera cost more than £2000 and you have 8 cores in your PC or Mac. Consumer cameras will not realise the res possible with HDV and the video produced is very clunky to edit on a real world PC, and rendering? It's not make a cup of tea time, it's more like go pick the tea from India but go overland time. Real cameras use tape too (with some worthy exceptions).

HDV is perfectly acceptable for non-broadcast HD use. If your PC can't cope with it - get a Mac! It'll cope just fine.

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2.Forget the Zoom buttons. If you are shooting hand held with a small camera shoot everything on full wide. Do this and some of what you shoot may be watch able without dosing everyone who watches on Dramamine.

Shooting everything on "full wide" will give you zero choice of shots in the edit and will result in a boring video. Use the zoom to set up the correct shot then hit the record button. it's also possible to zoom in or out while recording to draw your viewer's attention to something or to reveal more than was in your original shot. Done sparingly, it's effective.

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3.Use a tripod, then you can zoom, oh and it looks cool and pro too.

Hand-held shots (used sparingly) convey a variety of things such as someone being watched or followed and the franticness of a situation. Although hand-held is over used on TV at the moment, there are a lot of occasions when it is very effective.

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4.Never ever ever use any tarty wipes. Editing is very very hard – get over it, there is no quick way to impress your friends, least of all bloody Venetian blind wipes.

Again, used sparingly, the right wipes at the right times can be effective. never say "never".

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5.Don't participate – observe.

Unless you witness an accident in which case it's time to put the camera down and help.

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6.Less is more. Do yourself a favour. If you film your whole holiday (or whatever) you will end up with piles of tapes and you will need a lifetime to edit them. You will end up the enemy of all your friends if you ask then to watch the raw video. A weeks holiday should produce maybe 2 hours of tape and that should be ten mins of video – unless your holiday was in Iraq and you were really brave when 20 mins might be OK.

Tape is cheap - you don't have to use what you don't want. Better to have more (thereby giving you a choice of what to use) rather than less and crying in the edit because you don't have the shot you desperately need.

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7.Less is more, again. When you are editing use only those shots that are technically tip top unless it's of a plane crash.

Agreed (apart from the plane crash bit - see my comments above!)

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8.Only talk behind the camera if you are really clever and have thought about it first – you will probably sound like a fool, a very loud fool. Remember the camera is the eyes of the audience, not the mouth.

No - never do it. if you want to add a commentary, do it in post.

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9.Don't ever make light sabre videos or skateboard videos unless it's the real darth vader with a real light sabre on a skateboard doing really cool tricks and not falling off at the end.

Hmm - there's a guy who might disagree with you. His light sabre videos landed him a job at LucasFilms. Use whatever you're interested in as the subject of your videos. Your passion will show through.

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10.For all videos make sure you have a Beginning, a Middle and an End.

Just as well the makers of Lost didn't make their series this way.

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11.Get a microphone, anything is better than a camera mic.

An external mic is a good thing but nowadays, onboard camera mics give good results. For ambient sound, they're fine.

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12.If you are filming anything where there are police around, be nice to them, they usually know when the action will start. If they are suspicious of you just tell them you are a film student.

Never a good idea to lie to the police.

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13.Don't charge anyone for anything for at least 3 years after you start. Your work is very likely to be rubbish and you will get us all a bad name.

For the amount of hours spent recording and editing, you'd be a fool not to charge. If your customers don't think it's worth what you're asking, they won't pay. To avoid this, make sure you provide a top notch service.

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14.Don't do weddings – think out of the box, try funerals.

Weddings are not my taste but there are loads of people getting married every week - this provides an excellent source of income for some.

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15.Learn to use your camera in full auto mode. This is easier with some cameras than others I realise. Default should be manual everything with auto when you have no choice. Auto iris can ruin a shot when someone walks across a scene, it all goes bright and dark. Auto focus will often get the wrong thing or 'hunt'. Anti shake just makes it look like you were drunk, shake becomes wobble. My 'pro' camera has no auto focus and no anti shake.

Manual controls are there for a reason. White balance is almost always wrong in auto mode and auto focus should only be used in emergencies. How do you expect to throw focus in auto mode?

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16.Practice makes perfect – eventually. Learn to take criticism.

As long as it's constructive. People are very good at saying something is "crap" but they can't say why.

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17.Your friends probably cant act and you probably cant write. Start with those assumptions and refer to 16.

Learn your own strengths and weaknesses - if you can write and your friends can act, your talent is at your fingertips.

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18. Dont obesess over picture quality. Most of '28 days' was shot on SD (not hdv) canon XL1s - I didnt hear anyone in the cinema mithering on about the fact it wasnt shot on a 78,000 sony cinealta cam.

People go to the cinema expecting something high quality - when they're looking at your "amateur" stuff, the first thing they will criticise is poor quality. If it looks good, they will be more forgiving of poor content (well, slightly more forgiving anyway!) I don't think too many brides and grooms would be happy with something which looked like LP VHS!

Mark W · #23 (**permalink**) 03-23-2008, 10:23 PM

Stuart - you are a pedant and a jobsworth with soh faliure, well so it appears from your exhaustive post.

Rather than pissing of a mod why dont you add your own rules - that would be much more contsructive and in keeping with the thread I started.

Unless of coursee you are being ironic...

Get a mac indeed - yes like isaid an 8 core mac or pc - why are all mac owners soo defensive ? You really think any mac is fater than any pc - dearie me....

As for hdv - I agree with your observations but the thrust of mypoint is that for consumer cameras it wont look any better than dv - trust me I have tested this.

The Guru · #24 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 09:20 AM

Hi Stuart, welcome to Videoforums. A few points.

You've obviously put a lot of effort into your deconstruction of Mark's tongue-in-cheek "list" but long posts don't go down well here, it's a lot more friendly than that.

Macs used to be the weapon of choice for editting but, for a few years now, the PC has taken over for most television work. If it's good enough for the BBC and Sky, it's good enough for me. It used to be a case of people who wanted to be seen as "in the industry" used to go on about Macs, you won't hear any broadcast editors doing that any more.

HDV isn't really up to what the manufacturers are claiming. It doesn't matter whether you edit it on a Mac or a PC, the results will look the same, unless it's a static picture without subtle graduations of tone, the compression will make it look much worse than 50mbs SD.

Mark W. can teach you a lot about editing, although he can be a bit tetchy. He's right about a lot of things which newcomers don't understand. Wipes are very "80s wedding video" and should never be used unless there's absolutely no other way to get a transition (or the foootage has been specifically shot with a wipe in mind)

On camera mics are never fine for ambient sound.

I won't go on, I'll just say that most of your comments about Mark's "eighteen commandments" are misguided and although they're okay for "youtube" videos, we aim a bit higher here

Don't worry mate, these are common mistakes to make. welcome to the forums, any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Edit: Changed greeting from Chris to Stuart, ,my mistake, sorry.

stuart62 · #25 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 12:19 PM

Not sure who Chris is...?

I thought this was a forum for exchanging views but obviously I made a mistake as disagreeing with somebody (a "mod" at that!) "pisses them off". Sorry about the long post - it seemed the best way to respond to the points made and if it's Ok for a mod to make a long post, I thought it would be OK for me too.

The Mac / PC thing bores me rigid - the only reason I answered in that way was because I know Macs cope well with HDV but the original post implied that PCs don't - maybe I picked it up wrongly... I think you're misinformed if you think the BBC use only PCs, though - they have recently made a big investment in Macs & FCP as have ITV productions. That's by-the-by, though.

We'll have to agree to disagree on HDV - we've obviously had different experiences in this area.

I'm not sure how you think anyone can teach me about editing without seeing any of my work - that's quite an assumption to make, really and I think I'll make up my own mind about wipes and other techniques - it's not as if you never see them on professional productions. As for "aiming higher" - again, you've nothing to compare with so it's maybe best not to make assumptions.

Mark - you said "why don't I add my own rules?" - I thought I had. 18 of them!

As for the humour in your original post - I thought I had replied in a similar vein but maybe it was too subtle.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of the work I do, I can't post any of it on the internet for you to tear to pieces which is a shame because maybe I know a lot more about this that you seem to think.

Obviously this is one of these forums where there is one rule for the "mods" and another for the humble "others" so it's not really the place for me. I prefer to enter into discussions about things rather than just be told I'm wrong if people disagree with me.

GDR · #26 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 02:32 PM

Hi Stuart,

As I am always eager to learn, I would be interested to know where you would use wipes....say on a wedding film.

You do not have to show me a sample, just explain where you would use one and why.

Thank you.

The Guru · #27 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 04:50 PM

With all due respect Stuart, a forum is a bit like a pub, you wander in and start up conversations. You've come in here and gone a lengthy attack on one of the senior members, a regular to continue the analogy. You've done it in a couple of threads, which is a bit strange. You've made some very snidey comments, referring to his "amateur" stuff and so on. Do that in a pub and you'd get a slap. Especially from a Newby with four posts and no examples of his work to show.

Mark is, not only, one of our most prolific posters but also one of this forum's most prolific videomakers. He's also very experienced and knows what he's talking about. You, unfortunately in attacking him, have shown that your knowledge isn't up to his, hence my comments.

So, show us something to back up your opinions and we'll listen, otherwise, maybe this isn't the "local" for you.

shiner · #28 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 06:15 PM

Talks very very cheap stuart62, either put up wonderful editing you've done or shut up

Mark W · #29 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 07:06 PM

Just to calirify - this thread was meant to be a bit of fun - I tht that was clear - hence my rather primadonnaish hissy fit. Stuart seemd to missed the point.

I am sure we are all savvy now - so - on with the show...

Marc Peters · #30 (**permalink**) 03-25-2008, 08:33 PM

It seems Stuart has left us, but I think we should take his comments a bit further:

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Shooting everything on "full wide" will give you zero choice of shots in the edit and will result in a boring video. Use the zoom to set up the correct shot then hit the record button. it's also possible to zoom in or out while recording to draw your viewer's attention to something or to reveal more than was in your original shot. Done sparingly, it's effective.

There's always a space in my locker for a zoom. But cut it out in post. You'll only ever 'see' a zoom on a news report, there's no need to use it in your film. That's not to say you can't use the zoom, just don't show the viewer how you got there.

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Again, used sparingly, the right wipes at the right times can be effective. never say "never".

I would like to see this. Maybe the right wipes are invisible, but I've been racking my mind and I just can't see it. All I can think of is the classi, 'move the camera to the next scene' shot.

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10.For all videos make sure you have a Beginning, a Middle and an End.
Just as well the makers of Lost didn't make their series this way.

Every episode of lost has these. Every series or Arc has a beginning, a Middle and an End. It may not seem like it, but analyse the episodes and you'll see the bigger picture.