my new gig filming site

komatoast · #1 (**permalink**) 09-22-2006, 02:21 PM

just thought i would bung this up here.... i know that its unlikly that any of you lot would need this sevice - i just wanted to get some feedback on it.

its in the very first stages of setup and there is only one page.... but anyhoo... take a peek

http://www.komatoastproductions.co.u...lming/LGF.html

yeebsy · #2 (**permalink**) 09-22-2006, 02:29 PM

I like it, straight away you see what you are getting and the prices instead of trawlling through countless pages of no-sensical crap like so many other web sites. Nice one mate.

Andy Lockwood · #3 (**permalink**) 09-22-2006, 02:32 PM

Too cheap by a mile.... Really, far far too cheap Koma. Don't seem so needy for work, and don't sell yourself short. I'm not sure what value you place upon your own time and effort, but the effort required to produce what you promise means you'll be earning about the same per hour as a little Chinese kid making Reebok trainers.

There's also the 'perception of quality'. That's to say, when everyone else is charging a certain rate and you offer the 'same' for alot less, customers may (and usually do) assume that the old adage "If you pay peanut's You'll get Monkeys" will prevail and look straight past you.

I like the look of the page though!

komatoast · #4 (**permalink**) 09-22-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Turn Media

Too cheap by a mile.... Really, far far too cheap Koma. Don't seem so needy for work, and don't sell yourself short. I'm not sure what value you place upon your own time and effort, but the effort required to produce what you promise means you'll be earning about the same per hour as a little Chinese kid making Reebok trainers.

There's also the 'perception of quality'. That's to say, when everyone else is charging a certain rate and you offer the 'same' for alot less, customers may (and usually do) assume that the old adage "If you pay peanut's You'll get Monkeys" will prevail and look straight past you.

I like the look of the page though!

i totally understand and in most cases agree. however, our target audience is local, unsigned bands... these are usually kids around the age of 15 - 19. we have been giving quotes very similar to the prices shown and have been turned down due to the bands not bing able to afford the service.

i also was worried that people may think they will be getting a poor quality dvd because of the low prices - hence the sample video.

i am a great beleiver in some work is better than no work and at more expencive prices we would be getting no work

thank you for you comment yeebsy i also hate site where you need to search and search for prices only to find you need to ask

actually i forgot to put that this was a start up offer........ i will sort that out now!

thanks to you both

Marc Peters · #5 (**permalink**) 09-22-2006, 07:39 PM

You might want to sort out the aspect ratio of the clip.

Mark W · #6 (**permalink**) 09-22-2006, 11:03 PM

Website looks really nice.

I take your point about the any work is better than none but you seem to be commiting yourself to a huge amount of work for very little return.

I question the wisdom of the full gig filmed bit and the promise of a 2 hour (!) video, this seems really long for this sort of thing with the commensurate giga hours of editing needed to produce something decent, especially from three cameras, yipes, that means up to 6 hours just to capture the footage (using my workflow anyway).

How about just offering 3 tracks and putting all the effort that it would take for the 2 hours into that and producing something better. I mean who would actually watch 2 hours, except the band??

Surely they are more likely to benefit from using the dvd as a promo and that needs to be short and polished.

I dont think the example is the best you can do from seeing your other stuff. The camera work is very shakey and it looked like single cam to me.

In my expirience (limited in this area) bands are more impressed by a shorter vid with higher production values, more pop video look if you like rather than real looking. What I mean is less lenght with more effort in the editing going in to impressive effects and 'wow' type stuff.

The interviews and back stage stuff is a great idea but I tht the interviewer wanst very good, especially as the example is your 'hook'.

Sorry if I sound negative but if it pans out then you really wont be able to bo more than one every 2 weeks because of the amount you are promising.

I would do less, do it better, jazzier, promise less and charge more.

komatoast · #7 (**permalink**) 09-23-2006, 02:06 PM

yeah i can understand where you are coming from... as far as the 2 hour dvd goes you have got the wrong end of the stick - i make no promaic of it being no less than 2 hours, it says up to 2 hours for a full gig, generally bands only play about 1 hour, i just didnt want them going crazy and whooping out a 3 hour set on us.
if we did fill a 2hour long gig then the capture time would be 6 hours but this only takes a few mins to set going at the start of each tape and is no real effort.

the example video uses 2 camera - i have no idea how you think it could have been done with only one as it was filmed live.
also editing live gigs is pretty easy with multi cam editing as its a case of lining up the videos and cropping out, the only sections that require and extra thought are the screan shots.

our interviewer was unfortunatly a last minute stand in as our other guy had an egg that was hotter than the sun explode in his face.... nasty

The idea behind these videos is that they are something for the bands to sell at gigs along side there t-shirts and CDs

thanks for your help, we are only doing this for a trail period so we shall see how it goes.

Andy Lockwood · #8 (**permalink**) 09-23-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by komatoast

......The idea behind these videos is that they are something for the bands to sell at gigs along side there t-shirts and CDs
....

Be Very careful here... You need to think about licensing.

http://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk/r...&subjectId=122

The Guru · #9 (**permalink**) 09-23-2006, 02:49 PM

Way, way, way too cheap.

The strange thing about videography (which you soon learn) is that people either want your video, or they don't. Price consideration comes way down the list. If they really want a video, they'll find the money. If they don't want the video, you could offer it for £100 and they'd turn it down.

Far, far better to offer "reasonable" prices and, if someone really wants the video, to do a deal for them.

Two hour video, three cameras, including editing... a MINIMUM of £2000. Yep, that's being realistic. Think of the cost of your equipment (which has to be paid for) travel, set-up and pre-production costs for you, the crew and techies. The physical effort and knowledge required to film a gig. Think about the number of hours you'll need to digitize and edit the material and produce a dvd. Even at £2000 you'll still be working for an hour-rate which is less than a painter and decorator gets. £2k is really a rock-bottom price for a two hour dvd.

If you work for peanuts, you get treated like monkeys.

If the bands can't afford you then either you treat it as a hobby and do it for "costs" or you don't do it. Offering dumping prices like that is just making life difficult for videographers in general (BTW, once your low prices get known, I wouldn't leave any gear lying around if I were you, offering silly prices like that will p*ss off your competitors and may result in a bit of sabotage) Also if anyone asked me what I thought of £250 for a video I'd tell them to save their money and get someone decent to do it.

If you think that editing is "pretty easy" and the only part which needs extra thought are the screen shots, then maybe you should stay amateur.

If you're that desperate for work, do it for nothing and gain experience, but don't let it be known that you're offering a finished video for £250. (That price, incidentally is the minimum daily rate for a stage cameraman, just to show how low your prices are).

Mark W · #10 (**permalink**) 09-23-2006, 03:29 PM

I have dome lots of free work for people / groups. Often political pressure groups. I dont charge cos I usually support the aims of the group and want to halp out and I have benefited from the expirience of working for other people.

But think on this too and watch out... even when working for free once people realised I was a pretty clever editor / half decent camera bod they just seemed to expect more and more and get more and more piccy - the jobs became a nightmare and I owuld often have to point out that I was doing it for free and would go off in a sulk if they werent nice to me. People were totally unprofessional.

Now say you charge 250 quid. To many of these hopeless, talentless noise makers who live with mummy this may be a large amount of cash... set yourself up as a 'producer of fine promotional videos' and they may expect mtv in a jiffy from you. Then... are they likely to be professional nd respect you?? In my limited expirience the less people are paying the worse they are to work with.

AND then, well you are going to have to have a contract cos money is changing hands, that means you will be obliged to deliver no matter how difficult things become... all for 250 quid...

As guru says, do it for free, do it for the love of it, do it for the expirience and sheer joy of helping people realise thier ambitions and then if it annoys you you can bail out with no hassles.

I was recently asked to do a 2 hour (gig and promo) for a signed to small bedroom label drum and base outfit. I says how much, he says a cut of the profits... yea right...itll sell loads he says... hmmm.... I have been bitten by that befor. If I had said yes and signed I would have been committed to it. I also hate d and b and the last time I filmed any nearly got mugged by a cracked up twat for my gear.

I suggested to him that I would do 30 mins of good work for 2000 up front reasoning that if these dvds were such a sure fire seller that he wasnt risking much. He never phoned back.

Nearly done.

I am going on cos I have been taken for a ride and well shit on several times as I have got to grips with this video thing and i can see it might bring you a world of pain too.

Do it for free and for the love of it and all should be well. Maybe tell people they can pay you if they like the result but dont hold your breath...

ANd finally....

Someone I know in the biz recently did a gig / promo thang. The cost? £20,000 (twenty thousand pounds), but it is their living and the band were actually quite good.