I'm aware I can render the file to avi but it I found that solution very time consuming & strange, you can edit all video files without having to render them 1st so I don't see why HD should be any different.

It's a shame I couldn't just cut it in virtual dub & its a shame neither pinnacle ultimate not adobe premier pro would allow mt to output the file without conversion, however asking this question on another forum led me to Elecard XMuxerPro which did the exact job I wanted.

I trimmed 20 minute segments, took about 2 mins to trim each bit & then had my 12GB clip into DVD size which I can now get sent to the client.

Thanks for your help here